“I believe Biden would sign any piece of [cannabis] legislation that comes his way.”
Jason Wilson is Principal at Fourth Wall Advisory, a strategic marketing advisory firm, and a Cannabis Banking Expert. Joining Jason is David Culver, Vice President of US Government and Stakeholder Relations for Canopy Growth Corporation; Patrick Martin, Principal & Director of Midwest Public Strategies for Cozen O’Connor; Erik Huey, President of Platinum Advisors; and Melissa Kuipers Blake, Shareholder at Brownstein Hyatt Farber Schreck.
A Democratic trifecta in congress and the presidency is the best case scenario for the advancement of the cannabis industry. Initially, expect to see a Biden White House use executive orders that address the decriminalization and rescheduling of cannabis. Though, the start of the administration will be consumed with the COVID-19 pandemic. Support for cannabis has grown steadily over the years and has become a bipartisan issue. In congress, legislation will likely focus on passing a new version of the MORE Act. Such a bill will likely make it to the floor for a vote, but would struggle to earn the 60 senate votes needed (if the filibuster remains intact). “There’s a lot of parallels here from 2008 in the marriage equality issue with Obama… We could have the same thing with Biden and Harris [supporting cannabis].”
LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE
SPEAKERS
Patrick Martin
Principal & Director, Midwest Public Strategies
Cozen O’Connor
Erik Huey
President
Platinum Advisors
David Culver
VP US Government & Stakeholder Relations
Canopy Growth Corporation
Melissa Kuipers Blake
Shareholder
Brownstein Hyatt Farber Schreck
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
John Darsie: (00:11)
Hello everyone and welcome back to SALT Talks. My name is John Darsie, I'm the Managing Director of SALT, which is a global thought leadership forum at the intersection of finance, technology, and public policy. SALT Talks are a digital interview series that we launched during the work from home period with leading investors, creators, and thinkers.
John Darsie: (00:32)
And what we're really trying to do during these SALT Talks is replicate the experience that we provide at our global SALT Conferences, which we have an annual conference in the United States and annual international conference, most recently that was held in Abu Dhabi. And we're looking forward to doing likely a virtual Abu Dhabi Conference in early 2021.
John Darsie: (00:51)
But what we're really trying to do is provide a window into the minds of subject matter experts for our audience, as well as to provide a platform for what we think are big ideas that are shaping the future. And we're very excited today to welcome the fourth episode of our voice of cannabis series, where we bring together leaders and innovators from the front lines of the cannabis industry to talk cannabis politics, cannabis regulation, and the business of cannabis.
John Darsie: (01:17)
Today's episode is called the State of Play Before Election Day. And it's in partnership with Fourth Wall Advisory, which is a strategic marketing advisory firm. A special welcome to our newest panelists today, Melissa Kuipers Blake. Who's a leading lobbyist and seasoned political strategist, focusing on the field of cannabis.
John Darsie: (01:36)
Hosting today's talk again is Jason Wilson, who's a principal at Fourth Wall Advisory, and a cannabis banking expert with more than 15 years of experience in the asset management, finance, and structured product space. Jason has a track record of bringing hard to access asset classes to market. He's been working in connection with the legal cannabis industry for the past decade. And with that, I'll turn it over to Jason for the interview.
Jason Wilson: (02:00)
Thanks John, really appreciate it and great to be here for our final episode. Obviously lots going on, we go back to the VP debate, and I think when Senator Harris mentioned that if the Democrats win cannabis will be decriminalized or legalized, and man, did we ever see the markets move and the chatter start based on those comments?
Jason Wilson: (02:22)
Here we are a week to go to the big election and lot at stake. There could be several scenarios, several outcomes, so much going on. Eric, why don't you to kind of give us a state of play? What's the chatter? What're the expectations? Where do you see things going with it a week to go to the election?
Erik Huey: (02:41)
Perfect. Well, thank you, Jason, and thanks again to SALT and the team for having us back on for this discussion. Here we are a week out, it always seemed like people were saying it's a long ways away. It's too early to start to think about this. We're now seven days out, we're within striking days of this.
Erik Huey: (03:00)
And the reality is, we've already been in election month. This is the first election in American history where more people will have voted prior to election day than vote on election day. And the numbers that we're seeing are astronomical, 66 million people have already voted. 25% of them did not vote in 2016.
Erik Huey: (03:20)
And it States like Texas, that's 84% of the 2016 vote is already voted. In Georgia, 71%. We're seeing increased turnout among blacks, Latinos, and young voters. So people are getting to the polls early, there's a lot of reasons for that. A lot of it's COVID related, and safety-related, the numbers so far have leaned heavily democratic. A lot of that is due to, I think, voter enthusiasm, but also President Trump's comments about mail-in voting.
Erik Huey: (03:50)
Mail-In voting constitutes about two thirds of the votes so far, and in-person voting constitutes one-third. This could be the largest turnout we've seen perhaps in American history as a percentage, certainly the largest in terms of raw numbers and undoubtedly the largest in 100 years. So where are we? Right now, it's Joe Biden's general election to lose. He has had a very durable, steady lead for the entirety of the summer, all through the conventions into September, through October, in any October surprises.
Erik Huey: (04:27)
And here we are a week out and he finds himself up by nine points, almost 10 points nationwide in the poll of polls, the numbers I'm going to use are RealClearPolitics 538 poll of polls. So it's a polling average, he's up nine to 10 points. Hillary Clinton at this point was only up five, so that differential alone could be the Delta, but where [inaudible 00:04:50] as we know, the electoral college is how we judge who've won and lost.
Erik Huey: (04:54)
And the even though we may see a differential four, or maybe even five million of votes in favor of Joe Biden, the electoral college still could would determine this. So we look at where he is in the swing states, Michigan he's up by eight. Biden is up by seven in Wisconsin, Florida two, one Iowa, Pennsylvania five. Arizona, North Carolina, and Georgia up by three, two, and one.
Erik Huey: (05:22)
Trump is not out of the margin of error in any of the swing states and he's only up in Texas and in Ohio. What Joe Biden has done, he's grown the map, forcing the Trump team on the defensive nationwide and enforcing them to fight battles that they didn't expect to fight in places like Georgia and Texas, and spend money that they don't have, that the Biden advantage is two, if not, three to one, going into these final race weeks.
Erik Huey: (05:46)
And this is going to have an impact on down ballot races. So the Democrats, it's a non zero chance that Trump could win. We've seen that in 2016, but he does not have magic powers. This is a very different election in 2016, and it looks right now like Joe Biden is going to win well by over 300 electoral college votes.
Jason Wilson: (06:10)
Patrick. I mean, you're in the Midwest, we're talking about battleground States, and we also have the Senate to play here. I mean, that could flip, right? Where do you see this coming on emergence?
Patrick Martin: (06:21)
I share an optimism like Eric expressed, that the vice president is in a strong position, but mine is a very cautious optimism. And part of that is sort of living out more in the middle of the country, my in-laws and family are in Michigan. We spend a lot of time in Indiana and other states in the Rust Belt. And there is just a very different America and a lot of parts of the country than what you see in Washington, D.C., New York, San Francisco, and other large urban areas.
Patrick Martin: (06:53)
The battleground states are really close. And I think there has to be accounted for a percentage of people that are going to vote for President Trump, that don't tell pollsters that they're going to, or don't even answer calls when they get them from pollsters. I would also look at history as a guide, one thing we did in 2016, which is why I think a lot of us got the election wrong is, we didn't think that it mattered that you had sort of an insurgent outsider running against someone going for a third term, because we just thought that the fact that Donald Trump was Donald Trump was the offsetting factor.
Patrick Martin: (07:33)
And really all of the factors pointed to a Republican President having a really good chance in 2016, we just didn't think that it could be Trump. So let's look at recent history on incumbents who are defeated when seeking a second term. In the cases of both George H. W. Bush in 1992, and Jimmy Carter in 1980, you had incumbent presidents dealing with crisis at home and abroad, that suffered very, very contentious primaries within their own party in seeking the nomination for a second term.
Patrick Martin: (08:07)
And you had disruptive forces within the base that would be sort of a lack of support among core constituencies. I don't see any of that right now with Donald Trump, I mean, facing a crisis with this pandemic and the subsequent recession, but his base is firmly behind him. They were behind him in the primary, and the Republican Party is enthusiastic and energized about him as any political party has ever been about [inaudible 00:08:34] in my lifetime and probably my parents' lifetime.
Patrick Martin: (08:38)
I would make note of that. I would also just point out the obvious point, we are an evenly divided country, we're very divided. And I think you're going to see turnout that is very enthusiastic on both sides, because both sides feel like there's just a lot at stake for the country, and for people sort of way of life, and what they value and find important.
Patrick Martin: (08:58)
On the Senate races, which you mentioned, Jason, that's really important. I would point to an often repeated stat from 2016, but no Senate candidate in 2016 won a state that the presidential nominee of their party didn't win. We just don't see a lot of tickets splitting anymore. And as I look at the Senate map, I think that continues to make the Democrats path of the majority very challenging.
Patrick Martin: (09:22)
We'll have to see what the early vote numbers look like as we get close to the election, and kind of when all the votes come in, but I would say Biden is a favorite, but it is very tenuous in the same path that was available to President Trump four years ago, remains available to him today. And I think that's where things stand.
David Culver: (09:41)
Jason-
Jason Wilson: (09:42)
Go ahead David.
David Culver: (09:43)
Sorry, can I just jump in here with a quick comment, and also a question for either Eric or Patrick? Because I think their comments, both of them are spot on. First of all, I just want to say for the record that it is stunning to me that Joe Biden is in Georgia this week campaigning, and that that state is actually in play.
David Culver: (10:01)
A Democrat has not one that States since 1992, and I think Patrick alluded to that earlier, and that's something to keep a very close eye on in addition to some of the others that are running neck and neck. The second is that, there's been a lot of chatter about the staggering amounts of money that the Biden campaign has raised, and it is indeed record-setting, and staggering.
David Culver: (10:21)
The most important things in my mind though, in terms of the money is not the ad buys, but rather the paid GOTV, and also the paid legal, which there are hundreds of legal challenges across the country already. We know that this could potentially drag out until the second week of December. But they have actually the legal structure and pay in place. These are not volunteers, these are paid professionals.
David Culver: (10:44)
I think that actually is going to have a big impact, and I also feel like the paid GOTV is something that's not getting a lot of chatter, but it's really critically important. But one thing that I wanted to raise though, is that also this week, the one pollster from 16 that got it right, suggested that this time around it's actually a 5% kind of quiet Trump favoritism, right? Everything that we're seeing should be minus five, or plus five for president Trump. I'm just curious Eric, Patrick, if either one of you could comment on that, and if you think that that's actually real, and how that could potentially impact next week.
Erik Huey: (11:24)
Well, I would say, any one poll, you have to look at the biases of the poll, and the biases of the pollster, which is I think, why it's important to look at the averages, and where it's heading, and where the polls have been breaking. And the polls have been breaking not toward the incumbent, which is normal in elections. The challenger is where the undecideds break at the last minute.
Erik Huey: (11:45)
The polls are breaking to Biden, and Donald Trump doesn't have the advantage of A, running against Hillary Clinton who was extraordinarily unpopular. And he also doesn't have the advantage of running as an outsider. We've had five years to get to know him, and he's the only president incumbent in polling history who's never hit 50% approval.
Erik Huey: (12:06)
Right now, his approvals is at 43%, his disapproval is 53%. More than half of Americans disapprove of the job he's doing, and that's significant. Conversely, Joe Biden is over 50%, he's up by nine points, he's at 51, 52, 53 in these polls. And he's over 50 percentage points in key battleground South states, which Hillary never was. That doesn't mean he's ahead, that means he's winning those states.
Patrick Martin: (12:34)
I would agree with that, the polling certainly looks a little bit better for Biden right now. I think we're going to need to see over the weekend, as things tend to tighten in the last week leading up to the election. What sort of the real clear politics average looks like, the aggregate of all polls, but David, your point on spend the money is incredibly important. You and I both worked for Red State Democrats in our previous life.
Patrick Martin: (12:57)
And there is only so much you can do in some of these States to stay competitive with the Senate level during a presidential year. And so I think how resource data to GOTV, and to potential legal challenges, you've got like eight to 10 races that are all within the margin of error. You are going to have some really razor thin Senate results, and who ultimately can win, and prevail on legal challenges there, could ultimately tip the balance to either the Democrats or the Republicans.
Patrick Martin: (13:26)
I would just add one more thing on the silent Trump vote, and what percentage that is, I don't know. And I've certainly found the comments you mentioned very interesting as I listened to them as well. I would point out where my family lives, it's just sort of a general suburban type area. I think we're in the Chicago suburbs, but thank Philadelphia suburbs, Milwaukee suburbs, [inaudible 00:13:49] suburbs.
Patrick Martin: (13:51)
We will take a walk around our county, and there are a lot of Joe Biden signs. And this is Paige County, this used to be sort of ground zero for Republican support. There are almost no Trump signs, but there are a lot of Republican Congressional signs, there are a lot of Republican local elected official signs. And I don't think those people are voting for Joe Biden, I just don't. I just think that they don't want to put a Trump sign in their yard for fear of being shamed by their neighbors or whatever else.
Patrick Martin: (14:18)
And so I do think that is because of our politics, because of Facebook, and how tribal everything has become. There are a lot of people that are going to vote for Donald Trump, that people just don't really factor in. And I think that will be reflected in the overall results next week. I don't necessarily think it's going to be enough to tip the election, but if it is, I will be disappointed, but not surprised.
David Culver: (14:40)
Jason, just finish on my point here-
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (14:41)
[inaudible 00:14:41].
David Culver: (14:43)
Sorry, Melissa. But I'll just add quickly before Melissa jumps in. In my mind, this is a pure toss up, because of the silent Trump vote. And I appreciate my good friend, Mr. Dewey's enthusiasm, but I see this again. If you look at the battleground States, it's just a pure toss up, Melissa, please.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (14:59)
Thanks David, and I would agree with that. I've worked in Republican politics since 1996, starting in Florida, and throughout the country. And there's been some very interesting dynamics there over the last few weeks with general support for Trump coming from places that are not traditional, including the Bernie voters.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (15:16)
And if you talk to a Bernie voter, they don't have any interest in supporting Joe Biden. And they're not going to sit home either. And I had a conversation with an old boss a couple of weeks ago, who said his daughter who's 17, can even vote as a Bernie supporter, and has got a Trump sign in her car, and is doing everything she can to get Trump elected.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (15:37)
There's these pockets right throughout the country where you look at the coast, and I think you can determine where they're going to end up. But you do look at the middle of the country, I'm living in Denver, and yes, Denver Boulder Metro are pro Biden, but when the minute you leave that city center, you find a lot of Trump signs. And not only did we see that, you see a lot of Trump flags, and parades, and this passion. And I've said to many clients over the last couple of days, this election is a lot about passion for Trump. You either don't like Trump by a lot, or you really like Trump by a lot. The energy is not around Biden.
Jason Wilson: (16:13)
It's fascinating, right? You said, there's this whole lightening rod, and there's this passion, and it's an incredible election experience. There's two crisis going on in the country right now. I mean, outside of the whole Trump issue, look at the fact that we have obviously a social justice crisis right before our eyes, 2020 has been a horrible year to remind us of all of that, and then layer on COVID on top of that.
Jason Wilson: (16:42)
We've been hearing a lot of chatter as how cannabis, tax revenues, job growth, we have a super majority of Americans living in states that have already legalized. We saw some progression with the Farm Bill passing, and hemp related products, but we still have hiccups at the federal level. Melissa, how's that coming into play? Obviously there's this divisiveness over whether Trump's president again or not. But is cannabis... Is there any electability to that at all? How's that affecting the voter's minds?
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (17:16)
Thanks, Jason. It's a great question, and it's funny, cannabis has been legal since 1996 in California. The first medical marijuana state, fast forward to present day, we've got 33 medical States, 11 adult use States. I would suggest the tipping point came first in 2012 when Colorado and Washington decided to legalize adult use. So yes, many states, I think 20 some states had medical by then, but to take that forward-looking step and say, we're going to have this as a recreational product.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (17:45)
And then fast forward to 2019, where nearly 20 states legalized medical and recreational. And there's now been this tipping point, and after next week we may have five more states, which would put us at 38 States that have legal cannabis. And the question for any politician at any level is simply, well, if this is something my constituents want, why am I going to be opposed to it if I want their vote?
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (18:08)
And there's just this groundswell that has been building up over time with recreational markets coming online, and this acknowledgement by many members of Congress that while they may not have voted for it, and many of them didn't particularly on the Republican side, like Cory Gardner right here in Colorado. They do acknowledge that this is important to their state.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (18:26)
And another very interesting piece of the cannabis conversation is how it's legalized. You have individuals who do ballot measures, and they end up putting cannabis in the constitution like we have here in Colorado. Well, interestingly enough, Republicans will say to me, as I speak to them about cannabis, "Well, we can't really defend ourselves with the second amendment in the constitution, and then deny cannabis, can we?" Because it's all about the constitution for us.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (18:51)
Not only are they supportive, but they're leading the charge because it's cloaked in the state constitution. And those are conversations that we've had in Washington, I do think we're at a tipping point. Certainly in the next Congress and I know we'll talk a little bit about the scenarios and what that might look like after next week, but cannabis is becoming normalized, it's becoming socialized, is being put in the categories of alcohol and tobacco. And this is just another third pipe bucket of things that folks can use, should they desire for medical or adult use?
Jason Wilson: (19:20)
Yeah, and I mean, we're seeing it. Cannabis dispensary is being allowed to remain open during COVID as essential business. Obviously sales are going up, it clearly poised to do well in a post COVID type economy. You mentioned some scenarios, and obviously there's a number of them. I mean, there's a lot of people we're hearing even on the show a little bit expecting maybe a Democratic sweep.
Jason Wilson: (19:48)
Obviously we could see the Senate flip, we could see maybe... I don't know, we could talk about this, do the Republicans surprise the heck out of us. And do the Democrats lose control of Congress? I guess the best situation for the cannabis industry really is a democratic sweep. David why don't you speak to that a little bit? What would it mean if the Democrats flip the Senate, take the White House, keep control of the house?
David Culver: (20:22)
Good question, Jason. I think of all the scenarios, as you said, in my mind, this is by far the best for the cannabis industry. And I think that I should qualify that by saying that, no matter what happens on election day, and no matter what the makeup of Congress is, and who's in the White House next year, the momentum behind cannabis is going to continue.
David Culver: (20:43)
I've been at this for almost two years with cannabis growth, and the amount of momentum it has been staggering that I've seen, and I don't know that we're necessarily pushing the ball down the Hill, but we could get to that point early next year. Let's think about this, if it is a dumb sweep in two ways, first of all, if Biden Harris are in the White House, the political rhetoric that you've heard out of the campaign thus far has been around executive orders and decriminalization, and also rescheduling.
David Culver: (21:16)
We've never seen anything in writing particular, we don't know exactly what those executive orders would look like. And the proof of course, will be in the putting them in terms of what exactly does that mean generally or both of them would mean? But we'll need to see something in writing if that's in fact, the course that they go down.
David Culver: (21:32)
Now, they're going to be very focused right at the beginning on COVID. And it's going to suck all the political oxygen out of the room. And the bigger question in my mind, related to the cannabis, and other issues that they want to tackle is, how much can they do in that first 100 days, that's non COVID related. But let's assume that they do act relatively quickly on this, and then we would see those two executive actions early next year.
David Culver: (22:00)
But the bigger question though, in my mind is that, we're in the political silly season right now. And does that position that they have currently stick? I know that there's a number of us in the cannabis industry that we'll continue to chat with the Biden Harris campaign, and talk to them about policy, and whether it makes sense to reschedule cannabis, or to take it off altogether, if they'd be willing to go that far post the election.
David Culver: (22:25)
Those are some things to watch this fall and obviously pay very close attention to the rhetoric. But from what we know thus far, those two executive orders could be the action out of the White House. The second and parallel track is action on Capitol Hill. If we have Nancy Pelosi leading the house, and Senator Schumer leading the Senate, we know that cannabis legislation is going to move through a regular order. And by that, I mean that it'll be re-introduced in both houses, there'll be a number of bills, but most likely in my mind, the focus for next year is going to be prominently on the MORE Act, and the 2.0 version of said bill.
David Culver: (23:09)
But I do think that the legislation will be reintroduced, it'll go through the committee process. And then it's a question of whether or not it has to get over the filibuster in the Senate or not. If it has to hit that 60 vote threshold, then this becomes a much harder exercise to get it through Congress. If it doesn't, if the Democrats remove the filibuster, which they haven't shut the door on doing, then we could see this thing sail through a bit easier, because it would be a matter of picking off a more moderate Democrats that are questionable on cannabis versus trying to find another 10 more moderate Republicans to it through.
David Culver: (23:45)
And then final point I'll make is that, the big question then of course will be if Congress does act on a full descheduling package, what does the Biden Harris team do? Do they sign it? Do they not? That's kind of the million dollar question in my mind, we just don't know. But I will say that having Senator Harris as a part of that ticket, she's the sponsor of the MORE Act.
David Culver: (24:10)
I do think that there's a lot of parallels here from 2008 in the marriage equality issue with Obama, and oddly enough then Senator Biden, who was very pro marriage equality. And we all know how that one played out. We could have the same situation with Harrison Biden going into next year, once elected. But we'll have to wait and see.
Jason Wilson: (24:32)
Melissa, what happens in a status quo situation? I mean, Trump stays in the White House, McConnell's controlling the Senate. What happens in that outcome?
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (24:45)
I think you'll continue to see Pelosi and her house team pushed the issue. The Republicans in the Senate have consistently said, we need this to be a house issue, and then we can negotiate the details of it. I don't expect that that would change. And I'll get to why in a second, when we talk about Senator McConnell. But in terms of the house, I think Pelosi and Senator representative Perlmutter would put together the SAFE Banking Bill again.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (25:07)
They would probably combine it with the MORE Act and work with Chairman Nadler and his team. There's no doubt there would be some social equity language, very front and center on that legislation. They passed an omnibus or a comprehensive Cannabis Bill, it comes over to the Senate. And the question is, does it hit with a big thud as it has over the last several years?
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (25:28)
And I think now in a new environment with Trump having been reelected, that might actually get some traction, and there's a couple of reasons why I think that. Members are no longer up for reelection that are in very difficult races, they have a little more leeway, right? So they have six years before the re-election to make nice with voters at home, assuming voters at home are opposed to cannabis.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (25:50)
Based on our earlier conversation about potentially 38 States that are legal. I think the senators have a little more room now to say, I may not agree with this issue, but it is now legal and I have to honor my voter intent. When you get to the president, and he's a lame duck now, and there's a lot of appetite for the president to move forward on the State's Act, he said it publicly, he said he would sign it if it got to his desk, and that's what we've been working on for the last several months and years.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (26:16)
The concern there for him right now is of course, evangelical voters. And how do they feel about cannabis? And the last thing he can do is erode that base, knowing how much as we previously discussed, he needs those voters to turn out right now. In a lame duck scenario, I think the president has more room, his closest advisers, including Ivanka and Jared have had very meaningful dialogue with the industry about this issue, so I think there is a path forward.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (26:39)
And back to McConnell for one final second. You talked about the banking efforts on hemp and how hemp is a priority for Kentucky. The problem is, McConnell... Cannabis is not a priority for Kentucky yet. We're hoping that will be a factor in the coming years. But McConnell is really a bubble up leader. And what I mean by that is, he doesn't say to his Republican conference, here's what we will and will not do.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (27:02)
What he says is, if you have a critical mass of an issue that this is important to you in your home states, you come to me and we'll find a way to make it work for the collective good for the majority of the Congress. But the last thing he'll do is put his members on record on an issue that might only matter to one or two senators. So this all goes back to this grassroots effort, this groundswell, to get enough senators interested to go to Senator McConnell as the leader and ask for some room on the issue.
Jason Wilson: (27:29)
Eric, think about Biden Harris victory, but the Democrats can't slip the Senate, how much friction can be tied, how's that going to change the analysis of these outcomes?
Erik Huey: (27:43)
Let me first say that Senator Harris' remarks in the VP debate were C-change for the Biden campaign, and her remarks or her ability to make those remarks, they've moved from sort of her personal beliefs to the official position of the campaign, were the result of a lot of work by the cannabis industry and outreach by the cannabis industry, including a number of folks on this call, most notably David Culver.
Erik Huey: (28:14)
I believe that she could not have made those remarks without that outreach. We've seen this campaign move, and I think it will continue to move. I think president Biden, if elected would sign any piece of cannabis legislation that comes his way, whether that's the MORE Act, whether that's the State's Act, or whether that's SAFE Banking, or some sort of Cannabis Omnibus, Can-Omnibus if you will, they could come his way.
Erik Huey: (28:41)
Will it get through the Senate? As Melissa rightly pointed out Speaker Pelosi, and there's zero chance that the Democrats will lose the house. They will all in all likelihood probably lose five seats in places that they shouldn't have won, and then probably pick up five, or 10 more. So it'll be about a wash, but they may actually gain seats.
Erik Huey: (29:01)
Speaker Pelosi, and she will be Speaker Pelosi, we'll continue to move this legislation. And then if it comes to the president's desk, President Biden will sign it. So the question then becomes, can you get it through the Senate? And Melissa just sort of outlined what will likely happen on the Republican side, on the Senate. If there is intransigence and this continues to be a political winner for Democrats, then to David's point, you could see some executive actions by the Biden administration where they D schedule.
Erik Huey: (29:39)
And I view all of this, any one of these actions, whether it's SAFE Banking or the MORE Act it's sort of like the day the Berlin wall fell in cannabis, because shortly thereafter, that one event meant that Czechoslovakia fell. It meant that all of the dominoes, if you will, toppled. Any one of these trigger events, even through executive action, I think will completely open this up for the industry, which is exciting.
Jason Wilson: (30:05)
It is incredibly exciting, and fascinating to see how this all comes into play, but we have to keep in the back of our mind. And I want Patrick to speak to this a little bit. Sure as many of us are of Democrat victory. I mean, what happens in the other scenario where Republican stay, let's assume. It's not even status quo, let's assume that that Senate remains Republican controlled, Trump stays in the White House. And I mean, maybe the house flips and ends up under Republican control. Patrick, what are your thoughts on that? What would that mean for the cannabis industry if it went that way?
Patrick Martin: (30:51)
Well, I think the scenario Jason, that we discussed, I call it the least likely scenario, at least in my view. Or the least likely scenario, I think would be the Republicans take back the house. But the second least likely scenario in my view would be President Trump is reelected, but the Democrats flip the Senate. It would go against everything I know about politics for that to happen, but I spent a little time [inaudible 00:31:16] how it would work.
Patrick Martin: (31:17)
And I'll just propose this as a potential scenario, rules are being broken in politics all the time. As sure as I am, that it won't happen you never know. But in 2016, the Republicans were able to maintain their Senate majority primarily, because President Trump helped pull a lot of their incumbents across the finish line, and states that were really competitive at the presidential level.
Patrick Martin: (31:39)
It was a little different in 2020, is you have some Senate races taking place in swing states, but not nearly as many as there were in 2016. So this type of scenario where the Democrats control both houses of Congress and Trump gets reelected, you would have to have a certain type of situation where the Democrats gained the majority through these competitive really well-funded Senate races in Arizona, North Carolina, Colorado, maybe even Montana.
Patrick Martin: (32:06)
But that in the swing states that don't have competitive Senate races since the table, and that's like a Florida, Pennsylvania, maybe the Republican Senate candidate in Michigan does really well, or Peter's pulls it out, Wisconsin, Nevada States like that. And there would just have to be sort of an alignment, but in [inaudible 00:32:27], it would present a really complicated political dynamic where you would have to balance a democratic controlled Congress who is going to have [inaudible 00:32:36] disappointed base of their party, that the president was reelected.
Patrick Martin: (32:40)
But also the opportunity that you have a very ideologically flexible president, and is there the potential to get things done without him having to worry about running for [inaudible 00:32:53], you could see some real back and forth on what can we attach SAFE Banking to that we would just force him to sign, with some things like that. The two things I'll add to Melissa's comments, one, President Trump has said, he'll sign things and won't sign things all the time and then changes his mind.
Patrick Martin: (33:11)
It's really hard to know sort of what he'll ultimately do at the end of the day. I worry a little bit about his interest in signing cannabis legislation without any political upside, given that he's already been reelected. And the other thing is Melissa pointed out correctly, there are some really important advisors around him who I think was making progress on this issue. There is one very important advisor with a personal vested interest that he doesn't do anything and that would be Vice President Mike Pence.
Patrick Martin: (33:41)
He needs that evangelical support, he absolutely wants to run for president in 2024. And you could see him going to the president and saying, "You cannot do this to me, I cannot have this administration stamping support on cannabis when I'm going to be seeking the support of evangelicals in the 2024 primary." And you'd have powerful voices on both sides weighing in with him and then it's just like, it is every other day in Washington, right now. It's trying to get into Donald Trump's head to figure out what he's going to do, and I don't think I'm going to go there, I'll leave that to others.
Jason Wilson: (34:14)
Let's assume we have a lame duck session coming our way. And we obviously have a number of bills that are out there right now. Eric, assuming a lame duck session, do we see any progress? I mean, maybe it's the SAFE Banking Act that can get some traction. What do you see happening in the first few months post election?
Erik Huey: (34:37)
Well, I think that it depends on the election results, right? In the shape and the contours of a lame duck package, particularly if it's a stimulus relief package are going to be governed by the outcome of the election. In other words, if the Democrats sweep, leader McConnell will want to get as much into this package as he can, because he knows that he'll be coming out of the majority in January.
Erik Huey: (35:03)
If he holds onto the Senate, he will have more leverage certainly. And they might come to some sort of a conclusion. I think it depends on the parameters of this, assuming that it's a small let's fix PPP, let's do some funding around state and local, and a couple of the other things that we want to do, extending unemployment benefits up to 400 or $500 a week.
Erik Huey: (35:26)
That's a skinny package, that sails through without any of this. If it's a much larger package in the lamb duck, that's where you could see some pressure from Speaker Pelosi, who could be newly empowered and currently minority leader Schumer to say, "Hey, we've had SAFE Banking pass the house of representatives, it's part of the Heroes Act. So let's just include that in this package, there is no real natural constituency on the other side, this is going to grow jobs, not only in large cities, but throughout America, in communities, large and small, urban, and rural." And they could push that.
Erik Huey: (36:15)
I think it remains to be seen, at the same time you're going to have Progressive's, and a lot of Democrats say that no matter what passes in the lame duck or thereafter, you've got to have a social justice component to this. If you do not have social justice, we simply aren't tackling this in the right way. And you've heard me say this before, but we have 8 million people who are in prison right now for cannabis offenses.
Erik Huey: (36:39)
We arrest somebody every 17 seconds in this country for cannabis, black Americans are four times more likely to be arrested the cannabis. Our cannabis policies, historically through 1971, and rescheduling, were designed to put black and brown men into cages. So moving forward on any aspect of this, we'll have to have social justice, whether that's in the lame duck or next year.
Jason Wilson: (37:05)
Well, and obviously the MORE Act speaks to that directly, but obviously we didn't have any movement on it this year and we've pushed it back. David, where do you see the MORE Act going? I mean, is it going to come back in its current form? Is there going to be modifications? How's this all played out?
David Culver: (37:25)
Let me get MORE in a second, I want to just add one other comment about the SAFE Banking Act, which is, I agree with everything Eric said. I think that that is a very possible that we see a legitimate action in both houses on SAFE Banking in the lame duck period. Primarily because it's been endorsed by so many groups across the country, and also because this is a health issue now.
David Culver: (37:46)
You have all of these dispensaries, which have been deemed essential that are dealing with cash money all day long every day. That's a problem, and that's got to stop. I do think that access to the banks is really critical from a public health perspective. Now, onto the MORE Act. First of all, in terms of the lame duck, leadership in the house of representatives has made iron cloud promise to the bill sponsors, that they are going to vote on the MORE Act this fall.
David Culver: (38:17)
We don't know exactly when, and of course, as Eric alluded to earlier, the election impacts could potentially impact this MORE Act vote. But it was polled prior to the election, there was some nervous members inside of the caucus about voting on this bill prior to the election. So they pulled it, they promised to do it in the lame duck, I do think that we will see this historic vote come in November or December before they adjourned for the year.
David Culver: (38:45)
I don't think that the bill, as it was introduced in April of 19, is going to change very much, Jason. I think it's going to be relatively the same package as was introduced. And as members of Congress have co-sponsored. But going into 2021, I think, but I'm going to call it the MORE Act 2.0, I don't know exactly what it would be titled, but I think it's going to be different.
David Culver: (39:10)
First of all, you're going to have a very, very loud group from the left, especially if it is the Dem sweep. Either way though, you're going to have a very loud voice from the left, and there's going to be a lot of incumbents on the Hill that are looking to embrace the cannabis issue, especially those that are in the Senate and up for re-election in 2022. So I'll let you go back and do your homework on that one, but there's a lot of powerful folks in the Senate on the Dem side that are going to be looking for issues that will appease the left to make sure that they are not challenged from the left. And there's no better way to do that than cannabis.
David Culver: (39:46)
The second thing I'll say is that, the MORE Act punted the entire regulatory structure for cannabis to the tobacco model. And I think in my mind, that's something that I spent a lot of time thinking about and talking about, that's going to be the big change. What does that regulatory structure look like inside that bill that's specific to cannabis? What's the tax structure to look like that would allow for a transition from the illicit market into the legal market?
David Culver: (40:13)
The burden isn't set too high at the beginning, but perhaps ramps itself up over a period of time. How do you regulate medical cannabis versus recreational? All of these questions, I think HIll leaders are starting to look at. And I think that when we see the MORE Act in 2021, it's going to have a new and robust regulatory structure. It's still going to have all of the social equity provisions that Eric alluded to earlier.
David Culver: (40:38)
And I think if we do need a new Senate Bill sponsor, if Senator Harris is Vice President elect, then I think you should look to that class of 2022, and or other members that are concerned about their left flank. So that in a nutshell is kind of how I see them MORE Act for next year.
Jason Wilson: (40:59)
You touched briefly on the regulatory aspect and there's been in the last few weeks, there's been a fair amount of discussion regarding the States Act, actually, maybe being the best paths of regulation. Melissa, you're in Colorado and obviously been in the middle of this for almost the last decade. I mean, what's your view for a sec the States Act.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (41:21)
I think the State's Act is really quite gorgeous in its simplicity, and essentially saying if cannabis is going to remain on the schedule one list, but if you're in a state that has legalized cannabis, then the federal law and the punitive nature of remaining on schedule one would not apply to you. And when you present that to a legislator, particularly in a Republican Senate, they are interested in hearing that conversation based on the 10th amendment and state's rights.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (41:50)
The concern was the State's Act in the house and I understand it, and I hear it loud and clear, is there's not a social equity component. The question lies, is there a trifecta possible between the States Act, the SAFE Banking Act and social equity language. And I think that is where many of us in the industry and in on the Hill are looking, is there a global deal to be cut? If so, what does that look like?
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (42:14)
And I'll say, Republicans are generally okay with a social equity or social justice component, what they are generally not okay with is expungement language, where you're going back in time and changing previous marijuana convictions. And they tend to give me the same response, which is, well, if the speed limit was 50 miles an hour 10 years ago, and you got a ticket and now it's 65, are we going to go back in time and give you a refund on that ticket and change your points?
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (42:41)
No, but we will look at it going forward and that whether it's good or bad is the general law and order view of Republicans. So to the extent they're willing to entertain a Cannabis Bill, I do think there would be language similar to perhaps the first Step Act and looking at a second Step Act, which I think is coming as well, and that would be led by the president.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (43:01)
Could we perhaps include social justice language and the second Step Act, as it relates to cannabis, and then have a separate bill that deals with the mechanics to David's point, of how is it going to be regulated? What are the banking guidelines going to be? What are the rules of engagement? Does it look more like alcohol, or tobacco, or something altogether different?
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (43:20)
There may be a hybrid of a couple of bills, although I think an omnibus for those of us in the lobby co would be a much better way to do it. But I think the State's Act for people, for even on the Democratic side, who don't necessarily like cannabis, and many of them don't. I think that's one of the misconceptions is that all Democrats like cannabis and they're supportive of it.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (43:38)
There are many Democrats I've talked to who have family reasons, and personal stories that are very sad and tragic, and they want nothing to do with legalizing cannabis. It's a matter of finding a reasonable path, not necessarily a partisan path. And the thing that I've learned the most over the last decade or so is that, this is really not a partisan issue. It appears to be, but the more you dissect it and the more you talk about it, it's actually quite bi-partisan.
Jason Wilson: (44:06)
It's amazing, right? I mean, we have all these different pieces of potential legislation that come into play, and so many steps. I mean, even just to get in the regulatory structure, right? Absolutely fascinating how this is going to work, 2021 is going to be a banner year, but the one thing we do seem to know for sure. And you mentioned it earlier and also briefly is that, we're going to see quite likely and real quite potentially five more states legalizing. We have five ballot initiatives this year. David, do you want to touch on those states and what's happening there?
David Culver: (44:37)
Yeah, for sure. I like to think about... Let's see, what five when we rattled them off for the listeners Arizona, South Dakota, Montana, New Jersey, and Mississippi. And there was a lot more that were under consideration at the beginning of this year, COVID got in the way of some of them, but fast forward to a week before the election, and now we have these five states, which are fabulous. But we also have a number of states that their governors have come out publicly and been very vocal about the fact that they would like their state to act as well.
David Culver: (45:16)
There's been a number of reasons, but the primary driver of course, is the giant budget gaps that states are facing. The way that I like to think about these five ballot initiatives, and they are critically important, and hats off to all of those that are working in those five states especially our friends at the Marijuana Policy Project, they've done a really good job on all of these thus far. And I think that the numbers that I received this week are all looking good.
David Culver: (45:44)
But there are four main things in my mind when I think about this. Number one is normalcy. Melissa alluded to this earlier in her comments, the more states that legalized, whether they're medical or recreational, the more normalized cannabis becomes. Number two, is going to be the economic impact that I alluded to earlier. States are looking for jobs, they're looking to fill their tax coffers, which have been devastated because of the pandemic.
David Culver: (46:10)
And these are real discussions that they're having inside of state capitals about how did they do it? And cannabis could be a brand new industry for their state and could generate an amazing amount of positive economic impact, which the state is going to want to capture, because we don't obviously have interstate commerce at the moment. And if you do legalize in some way shape or form your state capitalizes on every aspect of it.
David Culver: (46:32)
Number three is, the impact on federally elected officials, right? If a state that has two Republican senators is to legalize, then like South Dakota, I'll pick on them. Melissa alluded to this earlier, those members in the Senate are going to have to scratch their heads and think about their policy position, because it's going to be important that it somewhat mirrors what their public wants, what their constituents want.
David Culver: (47:02)
And then the final thing is the regional impact. And we may want to get into more discussion on this with the other panelists, but if you think about a state like New Jersey, which is population heavy, which is surrounded by New York, and Pennsylvania also population heavy. If New Jersey does legalize, when I think they're going to, then what does New York do? What does Pennsylvania do? And you've heard the Pennsylvania Governor and Lieutenant Governor, very vocally calling for a legislative solution to this before the end of the year, and or next year.
David Culver: (47:34)
You've also heard just this week, Governor Cuomo come out saying we are going to legalize next year. And they need to do that because they need to fill their tax coffers, and they need to get the jobs, and they don't want their neighboring state of New Jersey to reap the benefits of this. That in a nutshell is how I think about it, and I think that... I mentioned earlier that the momentum is going to continue in the cannabis space next year, no matter what happens next Tuesday. And a lot of the reason I say that is that we are going to see more and more states whether through ballot initiatives, or through legislative action, look at cannabis very, very seriously next year.
Jason Wilson: (48:12)
I mean, you mentioned Pennsylvania and Governor Wolf. He's been very vocal and very critical. Patrick, I mean, I got to believe it's New Jersey, obviously that initiative moves ahead. That Pennsylvania moves to legalize this year as well, what would that look like? What would that mean?
Patrick Martin: (48:33)
I mean, there is a real possibility that the adult use can get done in the lame duck in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, but the real issue is the Republicans just aren't quite there yet. And it may be that we're looking to next year for a better opportunity for this to happen in Pennsylvania, that the electorate is certainly very, very popular both the amount of coal program and the prospect of adult use.
Patrick Martin: (48:58)
And also the budget shortfall that David mentioned as a result of COVID, that localities, and municipalities, states are cash strapped, and they are desperately trying to find ways to fill that budget hole. But to your point, Jason, each of these states regionally getting closer makes it much more likely that everyone's going to kind of tiptoe up to the finish line.
Patrick Martin: (49:23)
I mean right now it's like all three of these states all want to ask the same girl to prom, and neither of them are just willing to kind of take that final step and do it. And I can speak from the experience here in Illinois, that a factor that really, really helped in our legislative debate, and ultimate passage was the fact that Michigan had this on the ballot. And so you had a state regionally close by, that wasn't just saying, we're going to legalize it or use for legislature.
Patrick Martin: (49:51)
They have a Republican legislature that wasn't really an option, but because it was on the ballot, folks here knew there's going to be a set date that we're going to know if this is going to be legal in the state of Michigan. And ultimately it did pass. Amongst all the other factors that helped it along, that was a big one and my evidence would be, Illinois has a democratic governor overwhelmingly democratic legislature, but so does New York. The fact that there hasn't been sort of a forcing action from another state and the region, I think has made it possible to block it a little bit for all the reasons we've all followed in the states.
Jason Wilson: (50:29)
Melissa, may I ask you. You're in Colorado. Can we look at Colorado as, I mean, obviously, one heck of a model. And we're speaking specifically, I mean, not just revenues, can you walk us through what's happened from sales, from revenues, what that's meant to communities, and what's the reaction been since? I mean, how has this been perceived years later? Talk to us a little bit about it.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (50:54)
What's happening in Colorado. Happy to share that. When adult use was on the ballot in 2012, nobody thought it would pass including the governor, including the attorney general, including a lot of observers, including myself. Who've watched polling and watched campaign events here for a long time. It passed it and got more votes than Obama in 2012.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (51:15)
And the next day after the election, we all looked around and thought, "Oh, okay, well, I guess we have to do something about cannabis." So Governor John Hickenlooper at the time put together a commission of people, quite frankly, that he trusted from across all levels of government, and private sector to really literally write the first cannabis laws in the country. So that entire year of 2013 was our legislative session dealing with the implementing bill, and the legislature included certainly a state tax that would have to go to our voters based on the way we have something here called TABOR, Taxpayer Bill of Rights, where voters have to approve all tax increases, even if they already approved the underlying tax measure.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (51:53)
We passed the legislation through the legislature in 2013, put it on the ballot in 2013, had the taxation approved, which allows for state sales tax and wholesale tax, and gave local governments the discretion to either opt in or not to cannabis, and either to tax, or not based on the voter approval in 2013. Fast forward to January 1st of 2014, we go live, you saw the lines on the news of people waiting to buy the first legal cannabis, probably after years of buying illegal cannabis. So it was a big day.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (52:23)
And from that point forward, I will tell you, the sky has not fallen here. And a lot of people thought that it might that, what were we doing, what would this mean for kids? A lot of the studies and a big one called the Healthy Kids Survey that the state Colorado Department of Public Health does every year, has come out and essentially said, "Teen youth is not up with regard to cannabis, it in fact remains flat if not down after legalization.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (52:48)
The public service announcements are working, the education is working, the dissection of medical use for cannabis from adult use is working. And there's a lot of public relations and PR campaigns by the state around those two issues. At the end of the day, let's talk money, right? What has this done for Colorado? Well, I can give you some COVID related information.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (53:09)
The pandemic has been very good for the cannabis industry here. When you tell people they can't leave their house, they buy alcohol and they buy cannabis. In June, I'm sorry, in May of this year, we had a record setting month at $149 million in sales. That was big news. Well, only to be followed by June, where we had $158 million in sales. And that's because cannabis is allowed to be delivered now as a condition of the pandemic in the shelter in place orders. Under a bill passed last year, you can deliver medical, but you couldn't deliver adult use, so we were able to find a way to have delivery for both.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (53:43)
What does this mean overall? In the last six and a half years, the State of Colorado has collected $1.5 billion in sales tax, as a result of cannabis being legal. And those numbers are only going to continue. And of course that includes licensing fees and other things, but the majority of that is sales tax. To David's point, to states, and cities, and counties that are looking for revenue, yes, there is a cost of doing business. You've got to have money to set up the ultimate regulatory structure, but after that, you can find ways to pave your roads and to do a lot of things.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (54:15)
Ironically, here in Colorado, the first 40 million of the cannabis dollars that come in every year go to capital construction for K-12 schools, and that was in our ballot measure. There's a lot of ways to dovetail these dollars, and to find ways to really fix the holes that cities, and counties, and states had before the pandemic, but certainly have now.
Jason Wilson: (54:34)
And every state obviously is taking a different approach, I mean, from seeing what's happening in Illinois versus California versus Florida, I mean, different types of markets from open markets, limited licensed markets. I mean, it sounds like it's been overall regardless of model, it's been a positive experience regardless of where we've had a legalization.
Jason Wilson: (54:58)
At this point, we should probably move to kind of, I guess, final thoughts, final remarks. What we want to do at the end of our voice of cannabis series was to give everyone an opportunity to have 60 seconds, maybe just give it his final thoughts on where the industry stands, how that ties in with the election, what we can expect in 2020, and 2021 going forward. I mean, from my perspective and maybe David, you can lead off, but a lot of that will have to tie into kind of industry unity. I mean, there's no question that genie's out of the bottle.
Jason Wilson: (55:32)
And we have state by state legalization, sounds like we're going to be quite possibly 40 states, if we look at the ballot initiatives and then some legislative states that might legalized through a legislative process. Clearly there's a demand sales are growing in virtually every jurisdiction, the tax revenues are there, but I still look back at the Farm Bill and what people thought that that would do for the CBD/Hemp industry. And it's going back a few weeks ago to where [Axle Bandy 00:56:07] was saying from New York. We still have all these interstate commerce issues, I mean, we don't have... There's this conflict between the DEA, USDA, FDA.
Jason Wilson: (56:19)
The industry together has to really figure out how to make proper regulatory change. So this does become a true industry. And so that's what we're hoping to see, legalization or decriminalization huge part of that. Outcome is going to determine how that happens, but I really feel like it's going to be up to the cannabis industry itself to have the biggest industry partners really make sure that we get regulation in place to make this truly scalable, while addressing all the social justice issues.
Jason Wilson: (56:54)
That's what I'm excited to see, is that how we can solve, check all these boxes, and make this work. David, why don't we take it over to you, maybe we can follow up with Eric, Patrick, and then Melissa, if you don't mind wrapping up the close out. And we're not going to have QA today, so I'll just leave it to you for you to give us your final 60 seconds, or so each. Thanks again, everyone for joining us, and thanks to our panelists here. I'll turn it over to you, David.
David Culver: (57:23)
Thank you, Jason. Well, first and foremost, I just wanted to thank Melissa for joining us. You were an excellent panelist, and we certainly hope that you will join us again at some point in the future. But thank you so much for being with us today. Jason, look, I may be the most boring commentary on this particular wrap-up session, but I'm going to beat the same drum I always beat. And you summed it up quite nicely.
David Culver: (57:46)
Which is number one, we must be unified as an industry going into 2021. We have got to find alliance amongst everybody that's out there so that we can march and lock step to get something done. I spent 16 years in beverage alcohol industry, when we were not aligned as an industry, we failed period. When we were aligned, we won and there was some really major pieces of legislation in the states and also in the federal level that we were able to accomplish as a result of that unity, that's number one.
David Culver: (58:17)
Number two, to the regulatory structure, again, we've got to get figured out on the federal level. If we in advance of legalization, in advance of cannabis being de-scheduled, what does that regulatory structure look like, and what is specific to cannabis? What models specific to cannabis that actually works? All of the big brains in the cannabis space are working on this right now, including those folks that are on this panel right now, and leaders on the Hill.
David Culver: (58:43)
But we've got to get that right going into 2021, otherwise, it's going to be a mess when we do legalize, and like my good friends in the beverage alcohol industry, we're going to spend the rest of our careers, cleaning up a mess that we made prior to legalization. Those are my two comments, and thanks so much again to you, and your team, and the folks from SALT for having me today.
Jason Wilson: (59:08)
Thanks David, it's been absolute pleasure working with you throughout this series. Eric.
Erik Huey: (59:17)
I've got two messages, one to voters, and one to policy makers. The message to voters is vote. You must get out and vote if you care about this issue. In conjunction with other issues that are important to you, you've got to make your voice heard. We're getting up to the point where you can mail on your ballots, but go down and vote in person where you've got early voting vote. Vote only in-Person where on election day you have to vote. This is exceedingly important generally, but particularly as it relates to this industry.
Erik Huey: (59:47)
And then my message to policy is, a friend and weed is a friend indeed, which is to say, this is a political winner, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, cannabis is going to be good for your district in terms of jobs and economic development. It's time to put away the vestiges on both sides of the aisle, and embrace the fact that we're past the tipping point, and we are here. This is the future, it's time to catch up.
Jason Wilson: (01:00:18)
Awesome. Thanks Eric. Thanks a ton, Patrick, are you back?
Patrick Martin: (01:00:23)
I'm here and my final sort of thought on all of this is trying to look ahead to what happens after the election. And one of the scenarios we discussed which is if it turns out that it's a great democratic year and Democrats end up in control of everything, there is going to be a view, I think amongst the activist community on among voters, that there is going to be sweeping immediate change on cannabis.
Patrick Martin: (01:00:51)
And I think all of us who have spent time working in government and politics knows, that it almost never works that way. And that there is going to be some time that is going to have to go by before we start to see the change that I know all of us want to see. You're going to have a new Congress and president potentially have the same party dealing with responding to the pandemic.
Patrick Martin: (01:01:16)
It's very possible that the US Supreme Court strikes down the Affordable Care Act in which they would ask to be a massive legislative response to shore up the nation's healthcare system. And while I think that you will see positive movement on cannabis, it's not going to be like a light switch on day one if Democrats control Washington.
Patrick Martin: (01:01:34)
And so I would urge all of those who care about this issue to make your voices heard, to continue to push elected officials to act, and to be responsive, but to also understand that governing sometimes doesn't happen as quickly as we would all like. But hopefully through the work of David, and others in the industry that will result in a thoughtful approach to legalization, and a federal regulatory structure that works not just for all of us right now, but for generations to come.
Jason Wilson: (01:02:04)
Now, fully agreed and well said, it's definitely not going to be a light switch. This is just the beginning of a very fun kind of time with lots of change to happen. We'll wrap it up with Melissa again. Again, thanks Melissa, I know we got you on here in short notice, but it's been really great to hear what you have to say and get your perspective. So we'd love to hear your wrap up.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (01:02:27)
It's been my pleasure, Jason, and thank you so much to you, and SALT, and David for the invitation. A couple of thoughts, I mean, we've talked about how cannabis is here to stay. And I think this is no longer a flash in the pan that certain states have legalized. This is definitely coming and it's coming right for Washington.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (01:02:42)
And Washington is going to have to figure out how to talk about cannabis, particularly members who don't like it, don't know how to talk about it, don't have it in their state, which is where we as lobbyists and we as companies can come in as that resource and say, "You don't have to like it, we just have to help you understand it." And there's a huge educational point that has been happening. I can tell you even five years ago, I would call certain members, moderate Republicans who wouldn't even give me a meeting on cannabis, now they're calling me asking for a briefing for the staff.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (01:03:08)
Things have changed, they want to be educated, they want to understand, they're all caveat with, I don't want to be the lead, but I do want to know how to talk about it, and I do want to know where this ship is going. I think we are very much at that tipping point and certainly what happens in the next week in the election will inform that. It's not just about cannabis though, it's about other industries that are looking at cannabis, and wondering what it means for them, including alcohol, including tobacco, including pharmaceutical, including pharmacies who might be interested in dispensing medical marijuana products.
Melissa Kuipers Blake: (01:03:37)
I can't tell you how many phone calls I've gotten over the last seven to 10 years saying, "Hey, can you fill me in on what you know about cannabis? Where's the industry going for my other particular industry that these folks are talking about?" This is a big deal, I think the world is watching, it's very exciting, I've never worked on a public policy issue as dynamic and exciting as cannabis legalization. And it's going to be here for a long time. Thank you so much again for having me, and I really appreciated everyone's time, and my very talented panelists today.
Jason Wilson: (01:04:06)
Awesome. Thanks Melissa, and thanks SALT, and thanks everyone for joining us today. We look forward to seeing what the election, the end of 2020 and 2021 brings. Thanks again.