“Americans should be concerned about the general level and openness of racism in the country right now.”
Daniel Silva is the award-winning, #1 New York Times best-selling author of The Unlikely Spy, The Mark of the Assassin, The Marching Season, The Kill Artist, The English Assassin, The Confessor and A Death in Vienna. Daniel’s books are critically-acclaimed best sellers around the world and have been translated into more than thirty languages.
Prior to his novelist career, Daniel became a journalist at the age of thirty-three, directing CNN’s political talks. There is a tremendous amount of historical content worked into all of his novels.
On racial tensions in the United States, Daniel reiterates his concern for minorities and warns against giving in to mob rule.
LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE
SPEAKER
Daniel Silva
#1 New York Times Best-Selling Author
The Unlikely Spy
MODERATOR
Anthony Scaramucci
Founder & Managing Partner
SkyBridge
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
John Darsie: (00:07)
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to SALT Talks. My name is John Darsie. I'm the managing director of SALT, which is a global thought leadership forum at the intersection of finance, technology, and geopolitics. SALT Talks are a series of digital interviews we've been doing during the work from home period in lieu of our global conference series. We're really trying to replicate that experience that people get at our Las Vegas event and at our international events. And what we really try to do is provide our audience a window into the minds of subject matter experts as well as provide a platform for big, world changing ideas.
John Darsie: (00:41)
And today we're very excited to bring you something a little bit different than a lot of the talks we've been doing on SALT Talks so far over the last few months, and that's bring your Dr. Daniel Silva. Daniel is the award-winning, number one New York Times best selling author of a long list of books, The Unlikely Spy, The Mark of the Assassin, The Marching Season, The Kill Artist, The English Assassin, The Confessor, A Death in Vienna, Prince of Fire, The Messenger, The Secret Servant, Moscow Rules, The Defector, The Rembrandt Affair, Portrait of a Spy, The Fallen Angel, The English Girl, The Heist, The English Spy, The Black Widow, House of Spies, The other Woman, and The New Girl. And I think he will soon be on that list for his lated book, which is The Order.
John Darsie: (01:25)
He's best known for his long running thriller series starring spy and art restorer, Gabrielle Allen. Silva's books are critically acclaimed best sellers around the world and have been translated into more than 30 languages. Daniel resides in Florida with his wife, a television journalist, Jamie Gangel, and their twins, Lily and Nicholas.
John Darsie: (01:45)
If you have any questions for Daniel during today's talk, a reminder, enter them in the Q&A box at the bottom of your video screen. And I'll have to say that we've been doing these SALT Talks for a few months. We've had several billionaires across finance, technology. We've had some people in the entertainment realm, but I've never seen our host today, Anthony Scaramucci, more excited for any SALT Talk than the one that we have today. Anthony, as most of you know, is the founder and managing partner of SkyBridge Capital. He's going to conduct today's interview, but I think it will be fascinating. Anthony, I think has read almost all of Daniel's books, including most of his latest book that came out about a week ago. So, I'll turn it over to Anthony Scaramucci for the interview.
Anthony Scaramucci: (02:26)
Hey, John. Great. Daniel, great to have you on. It's a true honor for all of us. And you'd be blown away at number of fans you have as they're populating the Zoom call, but also friends of mine that were excited that you were going to be on today. But I want to take you back. Tell us a little bit more about your personal background beyond what we would read at the back of a book. Where were you born? How'd you get started? Why did you go into journalism? And how did you flip over to becoming the great spy novelist that you are?
Daniel Silva: (02:58)
Well, contrary to what it says about me on Wikipedia, I was not born in Detroit, Michigan. I was actually born in Kalamazoo, Michigan, if you can believe that. I lived there until I was about seven years old. My parents are both school teachers. We headed west. I spent the rest of my childhood in Central California. And I attended college ... undergraduate work at California State University of Fresno, where I studied journalism with the great Roger Tatarian, one of the great wire service editors of all time, who was a great mentor of mine. I attended graduate school at San Francisco State University, a great conservative university in California. I'm being facetious, of course.
Daniel Silva: (03:49)
I studied international relations for my graduate work. One of my great regrets is I actually didn't finish my degree because I got the job I wanted. I was hired as a journalist for United Press International in San Francisco. Within a year, I was working on the foreign desk in Washington. And a year after that, I was living and working in the Middle East as a foreign correspondent at the age of 26 years old.
Daniel Silva: (04:24)
I met my wife in the Persian Gulf in 1987. We decided to marry. I came back here and worked at CNN for a few years as a television producer. And when I was about 32, 33, I confessed to her that I had become a journalist so that I could become a novelist, which is what I always wanted to be. And I told her that I needed to start working on my first novel. When she started laughing, or stopped laughing I should say, she said, "Go ahead. Have fun." And I went down, and I wrote my first manuscripts. It was The Unlikely Spy. And I left full-time journalism and became a novelist, I guess in nineteen about ninety-eight I left journalism, and I've been writing ever since, full-time ever since.
Anthony Scaramucci: (05:25)
Because you're a very creative human being, so you had these characters in your head. You had an idea of ... There was a storyboard in your head for how many years, Daniel?
Daniel Silva: (05:35)
For the first novel?
Anthony Scaramucci: (05:37)
Yeah.
Daniel Silva: (05:39)
I carried it around with me for a while. I loved World War II fiction. I loved World War II history and decided that was going to be my first book. The interesting thing about it is I wrote it while working. I mean, I had an enormous job at the time. I was the executive producer of all of CNN's political talk shows, so that included Crossfire every night, Capital Gain, Inside Politics, Reliable Sources, Evans and Novak, all of those programs. Jamie used to call them the shout shows. When I look at the landscape of television news today and all the opinion that comes through the screen all night long, I sort of feel at least partially responsible.
Daniel Silva: (06:31)
And so I would get up very early in the morning. I still do by the way. I don't really sleep much past about four o'clock. And I would write for a few hours. And then I would stop, would set it aside and resume my work day. I sent the book in ... I didn't have an agent, and I sent it in. We call it an unsolicited manuscript in the business. Inside the publishing houses, they call it the slush pile. And I actually got my first novel picked off the slush piles at a couple of houses. It was read. And as things are want to happen in New York Publishing, one person reads it, someone else reads it, someone else reads it. And within a very short period of time, I knew I had a book deal.
Anthony Scaramucci: (07:22)
I always find great insight in your books, historical insight, insight into the art world, the Vatican, obviously the Mossad. But tell us why you named the character Gabriel. Is it because he's the interpreter of Daniel? Is that why you named him that? Because you've left that in a few of your books, and I'm just wondering you're telling the readers something about yourself in the book.
Daniel Silva: (07:47)
Well, first of all, it's a beautiful name. I just love the name Gabriel. I love the translation of the name Gabriel, which is God is my strength. All of us with the I-E-L, that means God is in our name. So I'm Daniel, so my name translates as God is my judge. It's not a great name to have. Apparently people who are given this name have a sense that God is looking over their shoulder all the time, and I definitely feel that way. So I love the name. I love the fact that it is the name of an important archangel. He was the defender of Israel, the prince of [inaudible 00:08:33], the interpreter of Daniel's visions, and the messenger. That's his other great quality. So I thought that was a perfect name for him.
Daniel Silva: (08:44)
And then his last name, Allon, allon is just an oak tree in Israel. It's a very common name. I thought it was simple, that it was sort of in its own way a little bit anglicized to begin with. And I just liked what it meant, solid as an oak. And then also that he's a restorer who works on wood and panels and frames, it suited his character. So I did work hard on the name in service of a character who was supposed to be in one novel, by the way. He was not supposed to be a continuing character. He was supposed to appear in one novel and quite literally sail off into the sunset, and that obviously didn't happen, but that's the genesis of his name.
Anthony Scaramucci: (09:33)
Well, thank God it didn't happen because these stories are ... They're beautiful stories. They're very suspenseful, and it's always an exciting summer read. Tell us a little bit about the research that goes into this because you are precise. You blew up one of my friends restaurants, Café Milano. [inaudible 00:09:53] he loves showing me the spot where the bomb went off. You've got the restaurants down in Italy better than the Zagats community.
Anthony Scaramucci: (10:00)
And so tell us a little bit about your field research and tell us a little bit about your research in the potential intelligence community to the extent that you're able to talk about that. How do you get the ethos of these players so well?
Daniel Silva: (10:15)
Well, in terms of site research and trying to soak up as much of a place as possible, I do try to do that. I try to spend as much time in a place as possible that I'm writing about. We've obviously spent a tremendous amount of time in Italy. And one summer, we spent virtually the entire summer there. I used the house where we lived, this farm that we lived on in a couple of novels. I've spent a lot of time in the Vatican. This book has a conclave scene in it. I've been in the Sistine Chapel alone. I've opened the door of the [Nero 00:10:56], the little stove where they burn the ballots. I've been in the crying room.
Daniel Silva: (11:00)
So I do a lot of site research, as much as I can. And if possible, I like to go before I write, in that little bit of down period. For example, when I wrote Moscow Rules, we spent a couple of weeks traveling in Russia. That trip really influenced me. I could not have written that book without that time that I spent there. Sometimes I will go to a place in the middle of the process. For example, in House of Spies, I wanted to set the end of the book in Morocco, and so I dragged everyone to Morocco for their winter break and settled there, traveling the country. And literally the way that the chase at the end works in that book, I was in each place writing it on the spot.
Daniel Silva: (11:56)
A tremendous amount of book research. If you look at my acknowledgements in the book in front of you, you'll see the research that went into that book. Often times for a project like this, I mean, I am up until 1:00 in the morning with a book open doing my research. I obviously do a lot of research on security issues. I talk to as many people as I can in the business. Some of my best friends are spies, and some of my best friends actually work for the Mossad. It's not a relationship where I ask them, "How do you do this?" They wouldn't tell me anyway, and frankly I want the freedom to sort of use my imagination and make it up. What I do get from them is their view of the world, their incredible intelligence, their sense of humor, which I hope comes through in the book.
Daniel Silva: (13:00)
One of the things I discovered after creating Gabriel is that there are a number of really talented artists and musicians who happen to work for the Mossad. I don't know if it's a gene pool or the type of person that they look for, but Gabriel Allon is not the only painter that works for the office, as I call it.
Anthony Scaramucci: (13:21)
And you have great insight into the Catholic church, by the way. And in your novels, I'm always reflecting upon my catholicism and the evolution of catholicism. And I saw your interview on Morning Joe, and I just wanted to ask you an elaborative question related to the Catholic church. You suggested on Morning Joe that they are obviously under financial pressure, but there's something else going on. We see empty churches here in the United States. There's empty churches in Europe. Do you think that this is a temporary pause in this 2,000 year old institution, and there will be an eventual renewal, or do you think that this is a more ominous sign of what's going on for catholicism?
Daniel Silva: (14:07)
I think it's difficult to overstate the depths of the crisis facing the Catholic church right now. I'm sure that you talk about it with your Catholic friends. I certainly talk about it with my Catholic friends. The sexual abuse scandal, this systematic abuse and coverup for decades and decades and decades has just shaken the church to its core, and there's just no getting around that. I'm not sure it's an extinction level event, but it's going to take a long time to get over that. The immediate effect of that is I think we're up to 19 diocese and orders in the United States that have declared bankruptcy. I'm told that the Vatican is just really hanging by a thread, the Holy See I should say, in terms of its finances. That they're going to face a real financial crisis in the very near future.
Daniel Silva: (15:16)
And when I talk to my more doctrinaire Catholic friends, more to the traditional end of the spectrum, they talk very openly about a coming schism within catholicism. I would hope not. But friends of mine who are not necessarily Opus Dei but sort of that end of the spectrum foresee a small church that adheres to the traditional doctrines and sort of says goodbye to a portion of the church that wants to move on and ordain women and make other changes. So, we'll see, but it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility.
Anthony Scaramucci: (16:05)
It's fascinating. You always say it's the oldest organization. It seems to me when you think about it as an organization and its survival over two millenniums, this seems to be a very hard blow. And so we'll have to see what happens there, but it's a good segue into my next question, a question inspired by your wife actually, about the book, The Order. I'm going to hold it up here. Great advertising. Great cover by the way.
Daniel Silva: (16:31)
Thank you.
Anthony Scaramucci: (16:31)
But Jamie wanted me to ask you this. I think it's a perfect question. The book deals with fascism. It deals with neo-fascism. It deals with neo-Nazism. It deals with anti-Semitism, and it deals with radical orthodoxies, like an Opus Dei or the Saint Helen's Order, et cetera. And so why did you incorporate all that in this book, at this hour, in the current zeitgeist going on in the world?
Daniel Silva: (16:58)
I have watched for several years in Rome. Talking to people inside the church and in Italia politics, just that with certain fascination that the hatred that populous far right has for Pope Francis. And that extends to this country as well. American conservatives despise the guy. And then you couple that with an internal doctrinal war that's going on, it seemed to me to be sort of the perfect setting to explore the rise of the far right in an accessible entertaining way, and in a very real way.
Daniel Silva: (17:52)
I wanted to couple that and pair that with the accompanying rise of anti-Semitism in Europe, which has reached levels really not seen since the middle of the last century. It's on the rise here as well, by the way. And to explore in this novel the roots of anti-Semitism. I don't know about you, but when the Tree of Life Synagogue shooting happened in Pittsburgh, I was deeply alarmed by that. I mean, it was not only the worst single act of violence ever directed against Jews in this country, but the nature of the attack ... You had a guy who's sort of a white nationalist. I don't want to say his name. Sort of a white nationalist, white supremacist, immigration opponent, and his act of violence that he chose to carry out was not against immigrants, brown-skinned immigrants, but against Jews. I was incredibly alarmed by that.
Daniel Silva: (19:02)
And I wanted to explore, "What is going on in this guy's mind? Why would he have targeted Jews when he's really angry about Hispanic immigration to this country?" And so just combining numerous elements, it's the way I assemble a book, and the result of that is The Order.
Anthony Scaramucci: (19:23)
I don't want to give up any of that plot line, but I do have to ask this question because one of your characters, and I won't mention who, says to one of the protagonists, obviously he's an antagonist talking to the protagonist, says, "Well, the lifespan of Jews living in their second homeland, America, is about to expire." And I'm sure you remember writing that. And I was left reading that thinking to myself, "Is there something ominous there? Is that a warning that you're putting in the book?" And again, just for context for people listening that haven't read the book, you do mention that during the execution of Christ certain things are discussed that are put into the gospels about blood being on the children and the forebearers of Jewery or Judaism, and is a very controversial nine words, to use your expression. And so my question is, where do you feel things are? Is there a cautionary tale here in your great novel, your thriller?
Daniel Silva: (20:31)
Well, let me answer that this way. I'm a little concerned about where we're headed in this country in the next ... in the short term. I am deeply concerned that we are going to get a clean, conclusive election. I worry what's going to happen if and when Donald Trump loses, and if it's a tight race, if he doesn't ... He said again on Sunday that he might not accept the results of the election. He actually said it again. I am concerned about just the general level of racism that's just bandied our country right now. It's flowing to the internet like Niagara Falls. And just the openness about it ... Look, am I suggesting that Jews in the United States are in immanent danger? No. Am I concerned longterm here about sort of the direction of this country and what's happening in particular in western Europe and in Germany? Yes, I am concerned. I am very concerned.
Anthony Scaramucci: (22:03)
When I visited the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial, the museum, and I went through the display, there was something that was left me, that is burnt into me. It was that Jews had lived peacefully in Germany for 500 years.
Daniel Silva: (22:19)
At least.
Anthony Scaramucci: (22:20)
At least. And this is the reason that 40% of them didn't really understand the danger, because they felt that they were Germans, and their bloodlines were German's, so therefore this sort of catastrophe, this fascist catastrophe couldn't happen to them. And so they stayed put while 60% fled. I guess the reason I'm bringing this up though is it ties back into your novels. You're fascinated with the Middle East, and you're fascinated with Europe. And so these seem to be your plot lines. It's the Middle East and Europe, and why? Give us a little bit of color on that. Is it because of this history between the two reasons?
Daniel Silva: (23:01)
Without question. I mean, my ... If you could see my wall back there, you'd see one section that have-
Anthony Scaramucci: (23:10)
I'm very envious of your wall. By the way, John Darsie was going to be asking some questions, Daniel. That's a fake wall behind him. I just want to assure everybody. So if he gets a room rating, it will be a fake news room rating, but you've got a genuine thing going on there.
Daniel Silva: (23:24)
And you would see an entire panel of that bookshelf, it contains every seminal work on the history of the Holocaust, the second World War, the history of Judaism. That corner over there is the history of Roman Catholicism. It's a subject that endlessly fascinates me, the Jerusalem to Rome axis, Western civilization, how we came to be. And Gabriel stands astride to that. And from the beginning of his career, Europe was his area of ... I guess he's gone to the Middle East a little bit, but mainly because he was a descendant of German-speaking Jews who came to Israel after the Holocaust, at least his mother. And because German was the first language he heard, it's still the language that he dreams in, it was just natural that his area, where he was going to operate, was Germany and Europe. He's picked up a couple of other European languages, Italian. He speaks decent French. And that's just where I choose to set the books.
Daniel Silva: (24:37)
So, yes, I've gone ... He's operated in Cairo. He's operated in Morocco. He's gone to the Persian Gulf, but I like European settings for my novels.
Anthony Scaramucci: (24:47)
I think one of the things that I'm always fascinated by about the origination of Judaism, and taking it right back to the Foundation Stone to where we are today, the seminal ideas are really about liberty. You can tie most of John Locke, and J.S. Mill and Jefferson, frankly, back to the Torah. Most Americans probably don't realize that, but that is the case. And one of the biggest things for me is the protection of minorities and the protection of not being ruled by the mob, but always having some minority protections in a situation. And so, for so many years, the Jewish community has represented that as a beacon of liberty. And here is your protagonist, he is a defender of that idea.
Daniel Silva: (25:32)
Without question. I mean, if he were an American kid in the 1960s, if he was that age, he would have definitely been in the South, fighting for voting rights and civil rights in the South. That's who he is.
Anthony Scaramucci: (25:47)
Yeah. No, he's the quintessential man of liberty and the quintessential man to protect individual rights and personal freedom. And so this is my question for you. It's not on the list, but I'm just very curious. We once had lunch together, and you said Israel, the country, is in a pretty good position. It's a very strong country now in terms of being able to take care of itself in that region of the world. Given everything that we just talked about and the rise of anti-Semitism, do you still believe that? Is it still on an upward trajectory, the state of Israel?
Daniel Silva: (26:25)
Without question. I mean, you're a businessman. You know the region and the economies-
Anthony Scaramucci: (26:30)
I knew the answer. I was leading you. I knew the answer, but I wanted you to state it.
Daniel Silva: (26:34)
Look at in terms of what they're doing with their technology, how they modernized their economy so quickly relatively speaking. They went from this sort of socialist economy early in the state to this thriving high tech economy. They got their water problem fixed. They got energy. And they've got one major problem. They've got a problem with the Palestinians, and I jut wish that we could come up with a formula to fix that in a way that can just have these two remarkable peoples living and working side by side because it would just be ... It would be the coolest country in the world.
Anthony Scaramucci: (27:27)
No question. I see it.
Daniel Silva: (27:30)
And if we could find some formula to bring true peace and get these two people who have been living side by side in this place for centuries and centuries and centuries and to work together because it's ... I don't know how much time you get to spend there, but it's a lot of fun. The food is great. The weather is great. The beaches are great, and we just can't get over that problem.
Anthony Scaramucci: (28:02)
I try to get there twice a year, and I find it to be one of my favorite countries. Before I turn it over to John, because we have a ton of questions in the queue, and I want to get to some of them, we all know that you're a voracious reader. Give us one book that you would suggest on the Holocaust and one book that you would suggest on the history of the Catholic church that's on your wall behind you.
Daniel Silva: (28:30)
Well, it depends on what kind of Holocaust book you wanted to read, but the Friedländers and ... Gilbert's one volume is a very, very good-
Anthony Scaramucci: (28:44)
Yeah, Martin Gilbert.
Daniel Silva: (28:45)
Martin Gilbert's one volume, he arranges it nicely so that you have a time, the of what's happening. And you can just sort of see the evolution of the Holocaust very clearly in that one book. And then there are numerous ... It depends on how deep you want to get, but in terms of specific things, like I read down to the various death camps and the personnel and how it all happened. I am deeply immersed in this stuff, and you can spend many years reading about it, studying it, if you choose to. But I love Martin Gilbert's book.
Anthony Scaramucci: (29:36)
Yeah. That's a great-
Daniel Silva: (29:36)
And I'm sorry. The second question was?
Anthony Scaramucci: (29:37)
Was on the Catholic church, the history of the Catholic church.
Daniel Silva: (29:40)
Oh boy, I don't-
Anthony Scaramucci: (29:41)
You've referenced James Carroll's book, Constantine's Sword- [crosstalk 00:29:45]
Daniel Silva: (29:44)
But that is not a history of the Catholic church per se. I think that the subtitle of that is the roots of anti-Semitism in the New Testament. I believe that's the subtitle, so that's very specific. But you will actually ... When you read Carroll from beginning to end, you will go on a journey. The way he arranges it, you'll start with John Paul and his important work that he did on this issue, incredibly important work, and you'll just go along for the ride. You'll go back to why the gospels were written the way they were, and the church fathers, Augustine, the Middle Ages. He will take you on a sweeping journey. I cannot recommend it higher than that.
Anthony Scaramucci: (30:39)
All right. Well, I'm going to turn it over to John for questions from our audience. They're all waiting here to ask you those questions, Daniel. It's a phenomenal book. I'll hold it up one more time for everybody so everybody can see that. And I'm on Chapter 56, and so I have to confess I couldn't quite finish it this morning because I got sidetracked by SkyBridge oriented business. What can I say, Daniel?
Daniel Silva: (31:02)
I'm sorry about that.
Anthony Scaramucci: (31:04)
But I'll have it done by this afternoon. Well, go ahead, John.
John Darsie: (31:06)
Yeah. Going back to the topic of the fact that you're a very voracious reader, what type of books did you read growing up, and how did it impact your writing? I know you've mentioned F. Scott Fitzgerald, George Orwell, and John Steinbeck as some of your early inspirations.
Daniel Silva: (31:24)
Yeah, they were. And I read them at an early age. I was lucky enough to sort of read at a high level as a young kid. But my mom was also ... is also a voracious reader. And I used to get into her stuff, including books like Sidney Sheldon and Harold Robbins and commercial fiction. And I still have that sensibility, I think. And my writing is a blend of literary and very, very commercial. And along with Steinbeck and Fitzgerald and Orwell and Graham Greene, I count Sidney Sheldon proudly as one of my most important influences.
John Darsie: (32:15)
So we have a question. It goes back to one of Anthony's earlier questions about the level of research you do. And sometimes in your books, you almost seem to not just talk about things in real time that are taking place in the Middle East or elsewhere but even predict events that happen. How are you able to do that? And are there any specific books that you wrote that you especially enjoyed preparing for and researching for?
Daniel Silva: (32:38)
Well, I mentioned Moscow Rules earlier. I loved doing the research for Moscow Rules. I studied Russian history and Soviet history in college. It was my first foray into using Russia as a villain. It was before the Russians were quite villains, so I was kind of ahead of the curve on that one. A book I did a few years ago called The Black Widow truly forecast and predicted that ISIS was going to be a problem in Europe, that these guys coming out Syria and settling back in Europe that it was only a matter of time I felt before Europe came under attack from ISIS.
Daniel Silva: (33:28)
I started The Black Widow before the attacks of November 2015. As I say in the forward of the book, I almost set it aside because it was just ... What I had written was so close to the way those attacks unfolded, including the fact that I had used Mol and Beck in Belgium as a setting and a place where the attacks were planned from. It was so eerily close that I just almost set it aside. I didn't want people to think that I had watched the attacks and then wrote a book about them, so I explained what happened in the forward and finished the book as planned.
John Darsie: (34:14)
We have a question, and obviously we don't want you to give away any future storylines of any future books, but someone asked how the current discussions in Israel about annexation of the West Bank might inform your storytelling and characterization potentially in the next Allon book? especially given the disparate emotions and opinions on the Barak team of agents that Gabriel works with.
Daniel Silva: (34:38)
Yeah. Who asked that question?
John Darsie: (34:41)
It was Suzan. And I'll protect her identity, but obviously a fan of yours.
Daniel Silva: (34:45)
That's a really great question. Look, I am ... I did something in The New Girl where Gabriel and KBM, as I called him, my Saudi crown prince, are actually driving through the West Bank. And KBM is annoyed at all the settlements that he's seen. And I had Gabriel say aloud for the first time that, "The two state solution was dead, and we have to come up with a new formula." And I believe that is a statement of fact, that it is dead. And I will say that annexation for me is going to be interesting to write about because I do not support annexation, and I'm not sure Gabriel does.
Daniel Silva: (35:45)
His mentor ... We used to wonder what they really thought. Was Gabriel a one-stater or a two-stater. And he was a two-stater at least for a while. He recognizes now that two states are not possible. But annexation is going to be difficult for me to deal with.
John Darsie: (36:07)
The next question, The Order sort of feels in many ways like a book of celebration of core Christian teachings. What are some of the lessons that you want the reader to take away from The Order?
Daniel Silva: (36:19)
Some of the lessons?
John Darsie: (36:20)
Yeah.
Daniel Silva: (36:22)
I think that he first lesson would be to understand the roots of anti-Semitism and to stress how important it is that we deal with this issue honestly and forthrightly, because I am concerned about the rise of anti-Semitism. I'm sorry. The second part of the question was?
John Darsie: (37:00)
Just in general, the book seems very thematic about Christian teachings and just lessons to draw. And you answered that pretty well. And we can move on, or you- [crosstalk 00:37:08]
Daniel Silva: (37:07)
No, no. But in terms of ... Look, in the end, it's a story of a remarkable friendship between a Jewish man of faith and a Christian man of faith. And that these two guys can work together to try to repair the damage of the past. In the end of this book, it's definitely a novel of hope.
John Darsie: (37:38)
We have a lot of questions about what's next. I think a lot of your fans have probably poured through The Order and are wondering to themselves what happens next in this story and what happens to some of your other characters. Have you thought about in terms of whether you're going to write another Gabriel Allon book, you're going to go back to Michael Osbourne? What's the future of Ari Shamron? and other things like that. What is next in your mind after this book?
Daniel Silva: (38:02)
One of the things I do in order to sort of heal from the process of finishing a book is I start the next book right away. And so this is the manuscript for the next novel. It's about 60 or 70 pages that I've got. It is a Gabriel Allon novel. It deals with Russia, and it will contain all of the characters that we've come to know and love and a couple of new ones.
John Darsie: (38:30)
We have a couple questions about Ari Shamron and whether he's being phased out of the books or whether we're going to see him again and again. I don't want you to give away anything in your storylines.
Daniel Silva: (38:41)
Ari is aging, obviously. And I simply cannot even wrap my head around the idea of his death. And so he will continue to occupy the place that he has previously, as Gabriel's father-like figure, his advisor, his mentor. Because of the structure of this novel, he actually doesn't appear in this one. It might be the first one he's never appeared in, but I have no plans to usher him off the stage any time soon.
John Darsie: (39:23)
Another question about your future writings. Would you ever consider writing a non-fiction historical analysis based on all the research you've done of these geopolitical and religious issues, or do you think you'll continue to write in the context of fiction thrillers?
Daniel Silva: (39:38)
Yeah, I will always write novels. I think at a certain point [inaudible 00:39:44] write a non-Gabriel book in the envy-able position that 20 books into the series that they're still on the way up. I sell more with each publication. So I guess it would be publishing malpractice for me to suspend the series any time soon, but at some point I really do want to write some standalone novels, and I'll get to them eventually.
John Darsie: (40:12)
Well, Sandra adores Christopher Keller and wonders if there's any chance that he might appear in a standalone book in the future.
Daniel Silva: (40:20)
Yes. Yeah, I actually have several sort of one sentence outlines, two sentence outlines for Christopher books. I think he's getting fuller and fuller with each outing. I think he's been ready for his own book for some time, but he's really ready for one now.
John Darsie: (40:41)
This is question relevant to us. We recently had our SALT Conference in Abu Dhabi, and we've become close with several prominent Emirati families and officials there about the rise of the UAE, and its warming, and its relationship with Israel, and its general disposition to try to foster collaboration in the region. Do you think Gabriel might spend some time in Dubai or Abu Dhabi in the future?
Daniel Silva: (41:04)
Definitely. I mean, it's not something that I actually write about, but he does spend time in Dubai and Abu Dhabi and Saudi. It's just the most interesting development ... important developments in the last five years, this growing closeness between Israel and to particularly the Gulf states. And that's one of the things that annexation is going to throw a spanner in the works. I mean, hopefully it won't collapse that new cooperation, but I think that if I were the director general of Mossad, and I've got great relations with the Gulf states that I've built up, good relations with the Saudis, I would worry about what annexation is going to mean for those. And then they've delivered blunt warnings about it, that there's going to be blow back if and when the Israelis do move forward with annexation.
John Darsie: (42:14)
So we'll ask you one more question. First I have a comment from Ana. She says, "It's not question, but thank you. My heart isn't ready for Ari to die." So thank you for that.
Daniel Silva: (42:24)
[crosstalk 00:42:24]
John Darsie: (42:24)
Last question. We have several about this that I'll combine into one, but is a movie series about Gabriel Allon forthcoming? Is there any update on those plans that you can provide?
Daniel Silva: (42:34)
Yeah. I sold the book about three years ago to MGM Television with a plan to turn it into a television series. My timing was not so great in that the little scandal known as Me Too blew up in Hollywood, and the rights reverted back to me. My wife is my business manager and handles all the negotiations on this front, and I think that she probably handles ... gets two or three calls a week at a time like this about potential entertainment packages. I had one of the best meetings I ever had last week with a group that wants to make it into a television series and just did the most beautiful outline of how they would do seasons one through five. So I guess I'm cautiously pessimistic that we can get this done.
Daniel Silva: (43:32)
And I'm the problem. I'm very picky. He's a special character. My readers have a relationship with him, and I am obligated to make sure that the character that ends up on the big screen or the small screen is like the one that I write about. I think I've been able to maintain a lot of control in these attempts. I've tried to make it into a series, and that will remain true, but I am hopeful that we can get this done.
John Darsie: (44:09)
Well, if Jamie's managing the process, then we're confident it will get done right, just like your background. So don't try to take credit for your beautiful room rater. It's definitely Jamie's work.
Daniel Silva: (44:19)
10 out of 10. What did Anthony get on his last one? I'm sorry.
Anthony Scaramucci: (44:23)
I got one over-
John Darsie: (44:24)
I think it was one out of 10, Daniel.
Anthony Scaramucci: (44:25)
No, I got one over a Scaramucci, which is one out of 11. It was very disappointing by the way.
Daniel Silva: (44:31)
I'm sorry about that.
Anthony Scaramucci: (44:32)
Which is why I have a HD television screen behind me right now, but I ... Look, I have a lot ... There's a lot of progress happening in my life, Daniel. We'll have to see what happens.
Daniel Silva: (44:40)
See, I got depth and flow, but I don't have that. You have a television set. And you look so beautifully lit and-
Anthony Scaramucci: (44:50)
See, that's a good dermatologist, trust me. But, Daniel, thank you so much for your time. One of the things I want to say to the young people out there. Here is a man that lived his dream. He had a great idea. He idealized his life, and then he did not want the mystery of whether or not he could do something. He actually went out and did it, and he's on 20 books, and he's a legend today. And so for the young people out there, you've got to start one foot ahead of the other and try and live your dreams. And so, with that, Mr. Silva, thank you again for an unbelievable read, and I look forward to seeing you soon.
Daniel Silva: (45:28)
Thank you, Mr. Scaramucci.