“Intersectionality is not only my actual identity, but also very much my career path. Whether it’s the intersection of health and technology, or computational biology and food, it’s very core to my thesis.”
Deena Shakir is a partner at Lux Capital where she invests in transformative technologies. She’s particularly interested in contrarian and underdog founders building digital health companies.
As the daughter of Iraqi immigrants, 9/11 had a profound impact and served as motivation to build bridges between communities through work and service. This included a stint at the US State Department as a Presidential Management Fellow before pursuing a career focused on sustainable economic development. A wide-ranging career has helped establish a deep and interconnected network that plays an important role as a venture capitalist. “Everyone has their superpower they bring to the table… I’m never going to be the smartest person in the room, the most technical or most experienced. My superpower is my ability to connect.”
When identifying start-ups and their founders, it is hugely valuable to find someone who has not only expertise, but also the ability to tell a story. Communicating a company’s mission through a story is vital to sustained success, whether it be fundraising or hiring.
LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE
SPEAKER
Deena Shakir
Partner
Lux Capital
MODERATOR
Anthony Scaramucci
Founder & Managing Partner
SkyBridge
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
John Darcie: (00:07)
Hello everyone. And welcome back to salt talks. My name is John Darcie. I'm the managing director of salt, which is a global thought leadership forum and networking platform at the intersection of finance technology and public policy. Saul talks are a digital interview series that we launched in 2020 with leading investors, creators and thinkers. And our goal on these salt talks is the same as our goal at our salt conferences, which we're excited to resume, uh, in September of 2021. And we hope our guests today will be able to join us at that event. But our goal is to provide a window into the mind of subject matter experts, as well as provide a platform for what we think are big ideas that are shaping the future. And we're very excited today to welcome Deena Shakira to salt talks. Deena is a partner at Lux capital, a multistage venture capital firm with around two and a half billion in assets, under management, where she invests in transformative technologies, improving lives and livelihoods she's particularly interested in contrarion and underdog founders, building ambitious companies in digital health and sits on the boards of companies, including H one, all stripes.
John Darcie: (01:14)
And she wrote she's the daughter of Iraqi immigrants, and Dina has had a very non-linear journey into venture capital, always orienting around tech and entrepreneurship with an impact focus prior to joining the lock. She was a partner@googleventuresandledpartnershipsformoonshotproductsatgoogleanddirectedatsocialimpactinvestmentsatgoogle.org. She was a presidential management fellow in the Obama administration where she worked in secretary Clinton's office and the U S aid on program supporting global entrepreneurship, a passionate advocate for diversity inclusion and equity. Deanna is also on the boards of several non-profits. She's a Forbes contributor, a Kauffman fellow, and as a council on foreign relations term member, she lives with her husband and two young children in the San Francisco bay area. But I think she's escaped. Uh, I have three kids as well, so I know how it goes. She's escaped the zoo. That is the household during COVID and is in the Lux offices today. Hosting today's talk is AGA Scaramucci.
John Darcie: (02:11)
Who's going to be increasingly joining us as a host here on salt talks. He's done a few previous interviews. I know we did one with Joe Lonsdale a few weeks ago, AIG, but AIG is the founder and managing partner of the salt fund, which is a new fund that we've launched, leveraging the community and ecosystem that we've built here at salt that's incubating and investing, especially in early stage life sciences oriented companies. So I know a lot of overlap with what we're doing at the salt fund and what Dina does over there at Lux, but, uh, with no further ado, I'll turn it over to you AJ for the interview.
AJ Scaramucci: (02:42)
Thank you, John Dina. So good to be with you. I mean, there's tons of rich things in that background before we dive into your role at locks and, and perhaps some of the investments you've made. I'd love to just contextualize that a bit. How did you get here? Well, how did you get to, to, to Lux capital? Let's start.
Deena Shakir: (03:03)
Yeah, sounds great. Thank you, John and AIG for having me. And that's probably the question I get asked the most, um, just behind it, if you look at my LinkedIn background or my resume, um, it certainly is, uh, nonlinear and non-traditional um, although, uh, I would contend that said there really is no traditional path into this field, you know, for me grew up in the bay area. Um, as you mentioned, John, my parents immigrated from Iraq. Um, my father came to the bay area to complete his residency at Stanford in psychiatry and just fell in love with the bay in the seventies. And so, um, you know, I had a very privileged childhood compared to most of my relatives and that were very, very much informed my identity, especially, you know, being in high school when nine 11 happened and feeling perhaps for the first time in my life, that my hybrid identity as an Iraqi, as a Muslim and as an American, all of a sudden to out it to anyone on the outside seemed at odds.
Deena Shakir: (04:09)
And so that really informed, it informs my career path, my, my educational journey and ultimately my, my goals in life. I wanted to help contribute to a world where that would not happen again. I wanted to sort of do what I had. I've always done when any third culture kid, any child of immigrants has done, which is to build those bridges and to be able to seamlessly transition between worlds and to do that in service of, uh, of impact. And so, uh, went off to the east coast for college. I went to Harvard, um, and, uh, and really thought I was going to do a PhD in anthropology. And I thought academia was going to be the path for me to do that. We studied the middle east, of course, at Harvard studying the middle east meds, you know, reading ancient at Katie and tech and setting Sumerian, Sumerian of philology, because very interesting, but not necessarily what I, what I had in mind.
Deena Shakir: (05:01)
And so I spent summers abroad and, um, and, uh, and then went off to grad school at Georgetown. And so ended up in DC. I graduated in 2008. Uh, in fact, I delivered the commencement address that year and the speaker right after me was that former chairman Ben Bernanki. And, uh, if you go back and look at the footage from that speech, I actually turned around to thank him and he had disappeared. So there was clearly something going on in that summer of 2008. Um, and of course, several, uh, several months later, we, we, you know, we came to see what was happening with the financial crisis, but bring that out because at the time, you know, the class before mine, class of 2007, 1% of Harvard undergrads went into wall street or consulting. It was just the thing you did there, wasn't really a clear path, um, between these sort of this dichotomy of doing well or doing good.
Deena Shakir: (05:55)
So you could go, you know, maybe you could see a doctor or you could be, um, you know, a human rights lawyer, or you could be an academic, or you could do what all the kids did and, you know, make a ton of money. And, um, and, and that's really unfortunate because it took me, you know, over a decade to realize that there is not only a gray area, if you will, that perhaps a more impactful area towards sustainable economic development, uh, in between. Uh, so I was pursuing the academic path and ended up in DC, as I mentioned. And that was a very interesting time, um, for the country, because it was there when Obama, who you may see in the, in the photo here behind me was, uh, elected was inaugurated and then ultimately took office. Um, and while I was in grad school, just, uh, as, as was the case, while I was an undergrad, I was working all the time.
Deena Shakir: (06:45)
I paid for both college and grad school by myself. And I was lucky enough to get an, a number of scholarships, but also was usually working one to three jobs at a time and happened to, um, one of those jobs happen to be as a journalist very briefly. Um, and I was on air, but I did a bilingual, Arabic English news show. I'm not sure if you can tell based on my presence with getting actually, it was very difficult because let's just say, I thought my Arabic was good, but when you ha when you have to do a news show on air and Arabic, that's a whole nother story. So happy to be on air anytime, but please don't ask them to do it in Arabic in the future. Um, but, uh, the ended up interning with the BBC and covering the white house when Obama gave his canonical speech, which became known as the Cairo speech in 2009.
Deena Shakir: (07:28)
Um, I know we talked about this before Aja, so I'm, I know you remember it, that that speech was a watershed moment for relations between the last and the middle east. And for me as someone who had grown up in the bay area, who was passionate about, uh, economic development and who specifically knew the power of technology in particular, um, to, to not only build bridges and product for impact, but also to enable livelihoods, I was really motivated by that speech. And I dropped my niece in career in journalism and made it my job to make that my job and find out who was going to be running, um, the policies coming out of that speech. So, uh, was lucky enough to get a presidential management fellowship ended up at, uh, initially it was at USA ID and then at the state department, um, and spent several years working on a number of initiatives around the post Cairo portfolio, specifically enabling, um, and, and funding, uh, programs for entrepreneurship in the region.
Deena Shakir: (08:26)
And so how, how did, how did that lead to, to venture, um, as a, is a good question. And, and a lot of it also has to do with another watershed moment for the region, which was the Arab spring and being in the U S government as an Arab American. Um, when that was happening was, was really interesting. And I was witnessing changes on the ground in the region that I didn't think I would see in my lifetime. Now, back then, we were all a lot more hopeful. Um, uh, you know, uh, certainly looking in retrospect things perhaps didn't end up the way that many had hoped, but what I was seeing was that technology was enabling change in a way that was truly revolutionary. And that to me was incredibly exciting. So it was a combination of seeing that, you know, the beginning of, of what we were, what we now call the fourth industrial revolution.
Deena Shakir: (09:12)
And I was coming out to the bay a lot for work. My job working in secretary Clinton's office, uh, on public private partnerships was to facilitate those types of relationships with startups, VCs, and, and, um, and also large tech companies. So combination of like feeling this, the, the energy here in the bay, recognizing that this, this place I had grown up in which when I left, I honestly never thought I would come back. It didn't seem like there was an opportunity for somebody who wasn't, you know, just, uh, maybe a chip engineer or, or, or perhaps a software engineer, but Silicon valley and the technology in general was not just a separate sector anymore, but a way of doing everything better, more effectively, efficiently, and in some cases more democratically. So, uh, that's when I decided I wanted to, to, to learn how to build product, and that's a, not an easy transition and it was early, you know, there's definitely a diaspora now of folks from DC in, uh, in the bay.
Deena Shakir: (10:09)
But back then, this is 2011, 2012. It wasn't a clear case to make, um, as to how someone with my background who literally studied the most non-technical degree, you could get at Harvard social studies and near Eastern languages, and civilizations would be qualified for a job on the product side. So very difficult, um, but ultimately ended up, um, being fortunate enough to get a really cool opportunity. Um, and so spent five years working on early stage product partnerships at Google, including some, uh, social impact initiatives, including, you know, Google's elections products and so on, but ultimately, uh, lands in, into healthcare. And that's what led me to venture. And it was leading Google's first HIPAA compliant, uh, product effort, meeting, incredible entrepreneurs who were doing things frankly, better than my team of hundreds of engineers at Google. And recognizing that big tech probably was not going to be the source of innovation in these really intractable fields.
Deena Shakir: (11:08)
Uh, and, and I just felt that same energy I felt when I wanted to work in the administration and that same energy I felt when I wanted to move into Google. And now I knew that it was the, it was working with startups that, um, would be my, kind of my life's work. And so, um, met some amazing entrepreneurs invested in some of them, myself as an angel, very small checks source. Some of them, some of my friends didn't venture. Um, and then that made my way over to GV where I was for a couple of years before joining Luxe. So that's, that's the not so short story.
AJ Scaramucci: (11:38)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's fascinating. I mean, having that sort of systems level approach, having those varied experiences in politics, in journalism, even in academia, and then eventually in technology as given you, I think a very unique perspective on venture. I think that's a perfect segue. I mean, an Atlas and you give us a sense, give us a flavor of your own investment philosophy in the context of the broader firm and perhaps even call out a few investments that you've made that you feel particularly
Deena Shakir: (12:08)
Compelled. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so at a high level you Lux has been around about 21 years, started off in the early days as a small seed fund out of New York that, um, my partner is Josh and Peter started with this hypothesis, that there was a really unique opportunity to invest in the earliest days of company creation and in funding, contrarian, rebel entrepreneurs who were taking on some of the most challenging problems. So we're literally turning science fiction into fact. And if you think back, you know, at that time there, wasn't such a clear venture return profile for that type of a business. Now we call it frontier tech, deep tech, hard tech, and every venture firm is trying to do it. But back then, that was pretty much a category creating, um, and bold mission. Um, and so, you know, I have so much respect for Josh and Peter for doing that and doing so in their early twenties, no less.
Deena Shakir: (13:00)
Um, and, and that's how it started. And they, you know, in the early days that a lot of nanotech and nuclear and clean tech and the fund has evolved quite a bit since then. So we are no longer a small seed fund. We now have 2.5 billion AUM, and we are a multi-stage fund, but we are very much still true to that core of, uh, of a deep conviction in science and technology in improving and advancing, uh, humanity. And very much still love to be there at the earliest days of company creation. So we're quite flexible. We can incubate, we can be first capital in, we are investing out of our sixth venture fund, which is a $500 million fund. And that's really for everything from pre-seed to series B ish. And then we also have our, our second opportunity fund where we not only double down on our existing investments, but also can make growth stage investments and companies like Benchling, which we just announced another round.
Deena Shakir: (13:55)
And yesterday, like Everly health formerly I really well, um, applied intuition, uh, and others. And so, um, you know, in terms of me and my thesis, you know, one of I had a couple of different opportunities that I was exploring, um, when I was thinking about leaving GV and had been at Google and alphabet broadly for almost eight years. And, um, it Lux was one of the easiest decisions I've had to make in my career. I was very, very lucky. It was clear to me that everything about their investment philosophy was just very aligned with my values. And also my, my background Lux loves to invest in the intersections and intersectionalities, not only my actual identity in terms of who I am, but also very much so my, my career path. And so whether it's the intersection of health and technology of hardware and software of computational biology and food like Shiru, um, and, and so many more that that is core to, to what they do.
Deena Shakir: (14:54)
And it's very much also kind of core to my thesis. So since I joined, I've made a number of investments. You've mentioned a few of them. Um, I probably spend the majority of my time, maybe 60% or more of these days looking at human health and population health. And I, one of the, our most more recent investments is in a company called steady MD, which, uh, Lux led the series B four. And I joined the Bora board of, and that company is really revolutionizing the expansion of digital health, again, from this notion of being a separate field to being sort of the rails that's powering virtual care across industries. Um, so, so that's a company I'm super excited about as somebody who, you know, worked on digital health product at Google in the very early days. And it's been recognized, you know, what it takes to succeed there.
Deena Shakir: (15:46)
And also, you know, frankly what the last year has taught all of us, um, about the importance of, uh, healthcare moving into the home of the decentralization of clinical trials and clinical research, um, and of the ability of technology to enable access at large, uh, to improve human health. So that's one example. Um, another is Shira, which was actually my first investment at Lux and the company that I am proud to continue to serve on the board for. Um, and so Shiru is applying computational biology and machine learning to the development of novel plant-based ingredients. And so for me, this is a massive opportunity to Kent, to, you know, contribute to, um, taking on climate change through, you know, reducing greenhouse gas emissions, but it's also a massive opportunity for a tremendous generational company. Uh, as again, we've seen in the last year, although I made this investment and, you know, before the pandemic, there is not only an increasing consumer demand for plant-based ingredients, but there is a, a really large challenge on the food supply chain.
Deena Shakir: (16:53)
That is that that is contributing to, uh, the bottom line for a lot of these food companies. And so rather than creating the next impossible burger or beyond meat or a chicken alternative, which Shira was doing is actually using machine learning to develop new ingredients. That will be the building blocks of those companies, but also enable the large fortune 500 food companies of the world to replace egg protein, or gelatin or various other ingredients in their foods. And that, and that is something that is incredibly exciting to me. It's a model that's worked quite well in healthcare and pharma for a long time. Uh, and, and Jasmine, um, with her company, Shiru is the first to actually apply it to food. So very excited about that one as well.
AJ Scaramucci: (17:37)
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, just to jump in here, I mean, when you think about it, I mean today, I mean, we're living in a, in a time where there is truly an abundance of capital where even pension funds, sovereign wealth funds are coming down and doing direct investments really for the, for the first time. And, you know, the question here is how does, how does locks, how do you, when you approach entrepreneurs, what does it mean to be founder friendly? Uh, what does it mean to really add value, uh, in, in the context, uh, of Luxon differentiate amongst the many, other many other funds, like when you work with say Jasmine, that she wrote would love to understand, you know, how you, how you win deals, but also how you empower and catalyze the, these entrepreneurs to tremendous
Deena Shakir: (18:22)
Success. Yeah, it's a really great question. Um, I, it's funny because when I speak to family members of mine who are very much outside of the venture capital world, they find it baffling that the check writers are actually the ones who are doing most of the selling and the hustling and trying to win. That's certainly counter-intuitive, but you, you absolutely hit the nail on the head. It's like, it's the, it's the nature of the business capital is everywhere now. And recently more so whether it's, uh, a family office, a corporate VC, or an entity these days, very, um, aggressive individual angel investors like getting access to capital is not the problem, uh, for entrepreneurs. So, so there is very much a, um, uh, a selling process that's important, but, you know, for me, it's, it's, um, a lot of it is grounded in authenticity and that is, believe it or not, uh, rare to find in this industry.
Deena Shakir: (19:16)
Um, and so, you know, having my voice out there, standing, uh, standing up for what I believe in across the board from an investment thesis perspective, from a corporate governance perspective, from a diversity and inclusion perspective is something that's very important. Um, and one of the beautiful things about this job is that we have the ability to meet with the inventors of the future all day, every day. Um, and so in a way it's been almost a return to academia for me, and almost a little bit of an anthropological exercise that I've been taking and really forcing myself every now and then to take a step back and actually produce some content. So I've been doing some writing, um, and, uh, and that was something that I really kind of just did for myself initially, but I've actually found that to be quite helpful in, um, attracting co-investors and entrepreneurs who are able to see who I am and what I stand for.
Deena Shakir: (20:12)
That's not necessarily a formula and venture. There are some of the most incredible VCs out there literally are not on Twitter and don't write anything. So, you know, that that's just something that has been helpful for me. Um, and, and the other, the other thing to note is that, you know, you might be, you might have a PhD in a very technical field investing in a technical company, but you're not going to be sitting there writing the code or, you know, developing their prominent proteins yourself. So it's important to have the fluency and the product to be able to understand what it takes to build a team and very much what I did in my, in my prior world. But it's also important to, uh, to, to understand what it takes to scale a business, and importantly, to have a network, everybody has their super power that they bring to the table.
Deena Shakir: (21:01)
And this is the advice I give to a younger folks that I mentor in terms of how, you know, different paths to get into venture. It, it's not about a formula, a template and pathway it's really about like, what is it that you bring that's different than somebody else? What is your superpower? And I am never going to be the smartest person in the room. I am not going to be the most technical, uh, and I'm not going to be the, even the most experienced, but my super power, which dates back to what I mentioned earlier, even in my childhood and my upbringing is the ability to connect the ability to bring people together. And the, the sort of diversity of my background in terms of different jobs and lives that I've held at all throughout being focused on partnerships has really enabled me to build a, not only why, but very deep network that I bring to bear, whether it's through commercial relationships that result in, you know, non-dilutive capital for these companies, whether it's through, um, different co-investors we can bring to the table, or whether it's through relationships with future board members or hires.
Deena Shakir: (22:07)
That's, that's my thing
AJ Scaramucci: (22:10)
Makes a ton of sense. And, and when, when you make that, make those investments decisions, Hey, you know what, we're Luxe, we're going to lead, lead that round. You're going to join these boards, as you think about all of the various input parameters that go into that decision, whether it's team market, et cetera, how do they wait for you if you were to kind of allow us to delve into your mind's eye there PA what is the weighting of those? Those are
Deena Shakir: (22:35)
Right. The great question. I mean, it's, it's almost a cliche, but truly it's about the people at the end of the day. Um, and the more I, the more I've been doing this, the more I realized just how much truth there is to that. Um, you can have an incredible idea. Um, and that idea might be enough if you're working on a product within a large tech company, because, you know, you can swap out team members, you know, it's, there's, there's more kind of fungibility there, but when you are putting everything at risk to start a company and going through the incredibly, like, you know, psychologically draining process, that, that, that it inevitably turns into no matter how successful you are, it's about the people. And so that definitely team is very important and, you know, a lot, some of that has to do certainly with the, with their background, you know, their, their, uh, understanding of the markets, but also their ability to communicate.
Deena Shakir: (23:31)
That's really important to me. And so we, we invest in, uh, quite a few scientific solo founders, um, and there are a number of companies, um, probably the majority of companies in my portfolio fit into that bucket. Um, that it's very, when we find someone and Jasmine is a great example and are certainly others, including a few investments, we'll be announcing that in the coming few weeks where they not only have the technical and professional, uh, expertise, but they are incredible storytellers. And that is important because it reduces financing risk down the line. It, uh, empowers them to hire, well, obviously there's, you know, a marketing and kind of growth element associated with that, but it is something that is important at all stages of the company. And I've actually said this before, and I really believe it for me, it's not my Harvard degree or any of the experiences I had in my professional career that I think is the most valuable that I've had. It is literally my speech and debate experience in high school that I think has been the most valuable skill asset activity that I have ever done in my life. And so that's something that I do spend time as well with our, with our, with my founders and coaching them on. Uh, and that Luxe in particular also is, um, ha has a wonderful program where we help, um, founders with that as well.
AJ Scaramucci: (24:50)
That's fine. Definitely. You know, you, you've been a, a huge voice and very active on the diversity front in Silicon valley. And, you know, th this is, this is a topic of continued discussion on, on Saul talks. We'd love your take on what, what ways, what techniques would you suggest, or how do you think about, uh, diversity in the context of venture capital, like literal partners, uh, as well as entrepreneurs and how we can sort of reorient ourselves to be more inclusive, more, more broadly?
Deena Shakir: (25:25)
Yeah, that's a great question. Um, you know, I, I think back to the, the first few years that I was at Google, where, um, you know, as you might recall, Google was the first major company to release their numbers in terms of the demographic data and specifically on there, on the technical side. And it was damning, it was bad. And so I actually helped put together kind of a, uh, an internal SWAT team to try to figure out how can we address this both internally, but importantly, you know, given the convener that Google is and the ecosystem, and that was actually a very valuable exercise, you know, almost a decade later. And how I think about the problem now from venture capital, what we realized through that is, you know, specific then to, how can we increase the number of, uh, of, of women and people of color graduating with computer science degrees, that there are points of attrition throughout the, the, the life cycle of an individual, uh, and shaft, you know, recent data actually has shown that some of these biases and preferences start as early as 18 months of age, um, uh, you know, and maybe John as a parent and certainly myself as the parent.
Deena Shakir: (26:32)
I think about that a lot when I, you know, w w w when I'm doing my own parenting. And I think back to my own childhood, I grew up with three brothers. And, you know, that that is certainly something that is important. So in addressing issues around representation, diversity, and inclusion, there are so many, so many ways that we need to work on it, and no one solution or no one point of attrition is going to be enough at Google. You know, they've funded programs like the Gina Davis Institute, um, where they, first of all, worked on actually mapping out data within, within, uh, TV shows within Hollywood, within media. And that helped to actually write characters into TV shows to, to offer examples, um, and, and, and role models to children and, and also to, uh, to, to adults. And that was something that has worked well in stemmed more broadly in the medical field in particular.
Deena Shakir: (27:23)
And so, you know, there's definitely the element of media, which is quite important. Um, there is the elements of a child early childhood education. This is something I'm also very passionate about personally, first and foremost as a parent. Um, but also, um, as, uh, you know, as, as someone who's focused on what the next generation will look like. And so there's, there's much to be done now, but we need to start earlier on. So I actually wrote a children's book, which will be coming out soon. Um, that is specifically about a, um, a, a young girl who, um, started the company and goes through, uh, the process of, of fundraising and what that's like, I, you know, and, and, uh, specifically as a young woman of color. So, uh, there, you know, there are many ways to address those. I do think the last few years have certainly been a reckoning for the world and everything from, you know, me to, to, um, you know, to the venture capital industry.
Deena Shakir: (28:17)
And there's been quite a bit of progress. And I know this because I, I wanted to, you know, enter VC before any of that happened. And I felt a market difference in myself, but there has not been nearly enough progress. And unfortunately, uh, the pandemic, uh, in many cases has exacerbated existing inequities and biases, um, particularly for women and particularly for women of color, uh, not just in terms of, you know, the number of, you know, the, the, the mortality rate for COVID itself, but actually for, you know, the folks who are dropping out of the workforce, it is devastating and there's much work to be done there. And if we can't even keep women in the workforce, imagine how much work there is to be done, uh, on the fundraising side. And so this is something that continues to be a huge problem. I'm very, very happy to say that there are incredible organizations, like all Ray is like him for her, um, and a number of others out there, women in VC, et cetera, that are really focused on this, um, that have raised money and have institutionalized and happen are being incredibly thoughtful, starting with research and all the way through kind of programmatic activities.
Deena Shakir: (29:25)
So I think that I'm hopeful and I'm optimistic, and I'm involved in that, um, that these things are, are long-term problems and require long-term solutions.
AJ Scaramucci: (29:35)
And when does this, when does this book come out? Well, what can, when could it be expect this to, at the shelves where I'm very about that
Deena Shakir: (29:41)
TBD TBD, it's still a, it's still a work in progress. I mean, the book is done. We're just going through the process of getting it published. So stay tuned for that. Um, but I'm very excited, John, hopefully you can, [inaudible] the baby's born.
John Darcie: (29:56)
The oldest, my oldest is a girl too. So obviously looking to surround her with positive, uh, you know, female role models. And as she grows up, I would love to, uh, to introduce her to
Deena Shakir: (30:06)
You. Absolutely. And she can hang out with my daughter who's around the same age. So for sure love
John Darcie: (30:11)
It. We're going to have a playpen at salt in New York. It's like,
Deena Shakir: (30:16)
So nice. Nice.
AJ Scaramucci: (30:19)
So, uh, so I think this, this could serve as a great segue. Do you sort of the second chapter of the interview here, Dina, we're really gonna, uh, go into some kind of broad existential topics. LA love, we'd love your take. So I think the first one is not quite the softball, but what do you think the world will look like in 2050 and generation from now? I mean, you could take this in any which way direct and in a direction you so pleased, but give us a sense as you close your eyes, what do you see for the world in 2050 for better or worse?
Deena Shakir: (30:55)
I dunno if that's a softball, that's a hard one. She asked somebody that in 2019 before the pandemic, um, you know, I I've been really interested, um, just intellectually, but also from an investment perspective and, uh, gen Z. Um, and, um, I just find the, the sort of the preferences, the behaviors, the, um, the epistemic choices that they're making very markedly different from the generation before. And so that's kind of what I think about when I think about the, sort of the change makers of, uh, you know, who will be, uh, you know, shaping the next generation, whether it's their focus on, you know, environment, the environment and climate change, their inherent, um, comfort with stigmatized topics like, you know, mental health and seeking therapy, um, whether it's a sort of digitally native experience that, you know, it is different, you know, as a millennial myself, you know, yes, I was on AOL as a child.
Deena Shakir: (32:04)
Um, and you know, all of that, but this is, this is different. Now this is, this is not just about communication. Um, it's about creation and it's about, um, and it's about, uh, the next wave of invention. So I'm, I'm incredibly optimistic and excited. Um, you kind of have to be as a VC. That's one of the things I love about this job, you are, you are, you know, these are long-term investments, right? I'm not, I'm not, uh, you know, buying stocks, right. I'm, uh, I'm taking, uh, you know, making investments in, in the future here. I see, um, an incredible opportunity on the science side. I think that what we've seen over the last year is remarkable. It is incredible. I, I have to like, you know, when, when I got my, my, uh, my vaccine, I, I, uh, like many, I cried not just on a personal level. It like, you know, we're getting through this, but holy, this is such an amazing achievement for humanity, that the speed at which we were able to uncover the incredible innovation behind it, the collaboration that it took. Yeah. There were some snafoos along the way, but if that's what we can do now, you know, I'm pretty optimistic about what 2050 will look like.
AJ Scaramucci: (33:17)
Yeah. I mean, not on this point here. I mean, it, the fact that it took us 10 months, really from the embryonic phases and the breakout and Mohan to, uh, to not, not just one to really, uh, compelling an efficacious vaccines and Pfizer Moderna and maybe a handful of others to go to be seen on the, uh, the J and J side that societal immune system was quite compelling. Like, I mean, it, it was, it was bad. Don't get me wrong, but I would, I would say props to us. I mean, it's a real time horizon for Vermeer drug to market 10 years in 10, we'll take, we'll take 10 months. And I think it's, uh, a good experiment for, for things to come. How do you think, I mean, with COVID and your, your investments in healthcare and such, how has COVID really materially impacted the healthcare system and your view, and it has, has COVID in the aftermath or the continued aftermath impacted your, your investment thesis, uh, in that category. Yeah,
Deena Shakir: (34:22)
Yeah, no, it's a great question. Um, you know, we we're, we have been investing in healthcare, certainly Lux as part of my even joining for, for decades. And I have been working on a prior to COVID, but this is, this is such a cliche. I hate to even say it out loud, but it truly was, you know, it was a watershed moment for digital health. And, uh, and I can kind of elaborate a bit specifically on how and why, you know, a lot of my secret sauce or my sort of super power, as I mentioned, was around the people. And so I've been having conversations for the last decade and developed relationships with the decision makers at the C-suite of some of these top insurance companies. So payers, health systems, so providers, um, and, and research facilities. And I know I worked on and I tried, uh, I know how difficult it is to, uh, to, to, to, to make change, especially when it comes to these deep rooted kind of challenges around, uh, incentives and provider behavior and so on.
Deena Shakir: (35:20)
It is not easy. So the, the last year forced change, empowered regulatory change that might've taken decades, it impelled behavior change that might've never happened. It catalyzed, um, these technologies from niche nice to have into permanence into essential. Then if you look at the last couple of months, they're the sort of investor calls of some of the largest payers and, and, you know, the Aetnas and the anthems of the world, the Humanas the world, as well as even retail, um, CVS and Walmart. And so on, everyone's talking about digital transformation, everybody's looking for these solutions and they realized, perhaps not, not at their own choice, um, that it works. And certainly there's still a place for, of course, for, you know, interfacing care, but healthcare moving into the home is here to stay. And that is across the board, not just in terms of care delivery, but another element that's quite important to us.
Deena Shakir: (36:20)
Um, and to me personally is also on the research side and the decentralization of clinical trials, the virtualization of clinical trials, the incorporation of digital biomarkers, and so on is not only important to us, to accelerate research and enable us to have, you know, solutions like these vaccines quite quickly, but also to, um, to, to be more inclusive in our research, which has been a systemic problem for a long time, women have been drastically under-researched resulting in issues like dosage, um, you know, miss Smith's dosage recommendations and ultimately sometimes deaths as well. And it's even worse in general for, um, uh, looking at racial considerations. So a large part of that has been just how difficult it is and consuming it has to be a part of clinical research. So that's one thing that's exciting. And we're in companies like science 37 and electro labs, uh, and H one, which are really at the forefront of enabling that, um, virtualization and de-centralization using technology.
AJ Scaramucci: (37:17)
Yeah. And, and on the, on the government side of the house, the regulatory side of the house, uh, when we're sort of crafting legislation and so on and so forth, if you were in, if you were in that position, if you kind of went back to your, your government days, what pieces of legislation would you be drafting to enable and empower, uh, the entrepreneurs, whether it be on the healthcare side, or even on the therapeutic side, on the FDA side of the house.
Deena Shakir: (37:45)
Yeah. Um, that there, there would be a lot of suggestions that I would have, but, you know, certainly it's not as easy, of course it's writing legislation, as you know, because there are really entrenched interests that play here that can make it difficult, whether you're thinking about, you know, cross border licensing for physicians or, um, you know, uh, what it takes to, to, um, to, to regulate a new device and regulation is there for a reason, regulation is important. Uh, we need that. We need, uh, you know, checks and balances and safety measures in place, but we also need to, um, facilitate and fund innovation. And I think, you know, what we've seen, certainly in the last few months coming out of, um, uh, the administration has been a renewed focus and interest on that. And I think that's promising. Um, but that there's a lot of play there. So let's see. I mean, it remains be seen how much of the regulatory changes that, um, you know, whether it's around HIPAA compliance or, uh, or so on how, how much of that is here to stay, but again, I'm optimistic. Hmm.
AJ Scaramucci: (38:46)
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of interesting regulatory considerations for these truly game changing paradigm shifting technologies in the life science sector. I mean, one of course is gene editing and the use of use of CRISPR, particularly if you're going after the germline of a given species. And I'm curious when, when it comes to genetic modification of humans, you know, if we had the ability to, to, to really do that in a pinpoint precise way, and we understood the, the ramifications, should we, should we take that, take that leap? I'm curious what your take is there.
Deena Shakir: (39:26)
Yeah. You know, I'm going back again to my childhood. Uh, you know, my, my grandfather in Iraq was a pediatrician and worked with the world health organization and he was actually involved in the early days of the, of the human genome project. And I, and as I think about, and he passed away, um, over 10 years ago. But as I think about the advances in the last decade, I always think back to what I, what would he think? And could he even have conceived of just how much opportunity there is now with these, um, you know, the cost reduction on sequencing, the human genome and our ability to uncover variance. And, uh, and hopefully from there discover therapeutic treatments, you know, Lux is, uh, is in a company called variant, which is doing just that. Um, we are, uh, we'll be making some additional announcements soon. Um, but I am long on poly genetic testing. I am long on, um, you know, pharmacogenetics. I think that there's just incredible opportunity toward the personalization of medicine, um, which has been a long time coming. And, um, and these advances on the genetic science side are, are, um, really groundbreaking. And so we're just at the cusp of that innovation
AJ Scaramucci: (40:41)
And w and one thing we think about, which is kind of a segue to that is, wow. I mean, lifespan is also extending about every year that goes by, we gained about a fourth of a year in life expectancy. That's been the case since the industrial revolution then kind of do some extrapolation over the next few generations. It is foreseeable that humans will be living a well over a hundred, perhaps even to 150 years of age. And that has tremendous ramifications on the healthcare system, on the insurance system, as well as, you know, all kinds of others, uh, related to the workforce here's as you, as you think about that or yourself, but also in the context of locks, how is that increased lifespan, uh, affecting the way in which you're thinking about these different ramifications in health and life science?
Deena Shakir: (41:32)
There is. So there, I mean, one of the big things that I'm, uh, and Lux is really thinking a lot about is at CNS and sort of, you know, cognitive science and, and, you know, that is one area where there's still tremendous. Um, just so much that we don't know, um, and, and so much opportunity there. And, um, and I had family members, um, who I've seen go through, um, you know, Parkinson's and dementia and so on. And so it is also very personal to me. So that's one area where, you know, I'm, I'm excited about the potential for transformative innovation. Um, and then in general, you know, on a more short-term, uh, level also just the idea of aging in place and what we saw through us again, through the last year, and, um, a lot of what we saw in revealing issues with nursing homes and so on.
Deena Shakir: (42:20)
But, uh, you know, as we have an increasingly digitally savvy, uh, elderly population, and as in particular, going back again to this issue, uh, uh, question around equity and gender women, finding themselves in the sort of sandwich generation where we are care-taking for our parents and also for our children, what are the types of technologies around care coordination? Um, and so on that can help to, um, to facilitate that and enable that again. I think there's, it's still quite analog in many ways and a big challenge for a lot of people. I'm sure everyone listening here has someone they know is not themselves personally, that's going through that. So I think that there's quite, um, quite an opportunity there and, and luckily a lot of venture dollars going to toward those types of companies.
John Darcie: (43:06)
And I have a question for you. So you do a lot of investing. You've done a lot in your life to change the world, but you also work at a venture capital firm where the expectation from your LPs I assume, are that you drive returns. So when you're looking at investing in life sciences companies or deep tech companies, how do you balance sort of this sales, marketing, and commercialization part of the thesis against, wow, they're doing really interesting things. I'm not that concerned about the monetization piece at the moment.
Deena Shakir: (43:35)
Yeah. You know, it goes back to sort of what I was sharing in terms of, um, graduating from undergrad and thinking about this sort of doing well or doing good. And, and the evolution of my own perspective over time, part of our investment thesis is that we are investing in entrepreneurs who are taking on massive problems, and those massive problems are there for also massive opportunities on the business side. Uh, but there are also opportunities to improve human health and to, uh, you know, in the case of Shira, for example, you know, contribute to, uh, reducing greenhouse gases, et cetera. So we are not an impact, you know, VC, we ultimately are stewards of capital for our LPs, who by the way, also represent some of the most effective from anthropic institutions, institutions, and endowments that are out there, which is another element of the impact, uh, to venture that is not often talked about, but it's something that is, is real.
Deena Shakir: (44:36)
And I feel very good about that when I know that not only are we creating value for, uh, you know, for the farming for these companies and for these individuals and creating livelihoods and, you know, stimulating for further innovation down the road by enabling ecosystems and so on. But we are also returning cap well to our LPs who are, um, you know, who, who are educational institutions and endowments and charities and so on. So that's, that's another piece of it. Um, in terms of your question on monetization that, you know, that is something that, um, is a risk and an informed risk that you take when you're an early stage, you know, a science investor. Um, but it's not a bet. It is, um, it is a calculated, um, decision that is made based on a deep understanding. And we're very thesis driven here. So a deep understanding of what it takes to get to, to, you know, to get to monetization what the market looks like, you know, deep relationships with the customers, if you will, down the road, et cetera, et cetera. And so it's, it's, it's certainly, it's never foolproof, but we, we, we are very calculated in how we make those decisions.
John Darcie: (45:44)
I'm going to ask you one more question before we let you go, Dina, it's about a super intelligent AI. So you talked about how she Ru is an example, and I'm sure plenty of your other investments incorporate AI, uh, uses AI to discover new plant proteins and things of that nature. Do you think we'll ever develop super intelligent AI or true AI? That's able to learn like a human learns, how far away might that be and what are the implications of that for the way we think about society and our workforce?
Deena Shakir: (46:12)
Yeah. Um, I mean, it depends how you define that because some might argue we already have that, but, you know, there's obviously a massive problem which has been, um, you know, which has come to light in particular with, uh, some large, um, companies with pretty, pretty serious news events in the last few months around, eh, you know, AI and ethics and AI and bias. So that isn't, that is another, uh, you know, interesting, uh, example where this sort of intersection of technology and, and, and, and, um, you know, artificial intelligence, computer science and humanities needs to come to play. So, you know, one of the, um, I think it was two years ago now Stanford launched the center for humane artificial intelligence, which I am a huge fan of. Um, and I love the intersectionality. They, they bring to the, sort of the innovation there.
Deena Shakir: (47:01)
Uh, if you look at companies like the one I mentioned variant, you know, which is ultimately focused on, on genetics and science, one of their first hires, uh, was an ethicist. Um, and so having that really deep in the DNA, no punt intent, no pun intended of these companies is, is, is quite important. So, you know, NLP, to some extent, uh, or, or, you know, is already almost approaching that level of kind of incredible with, you know, the, uh, how good the AI is in a number cases out there, but, um, there will need to be, um, checks and balances, particularly around bias.
John Darcie: (47:37)
Well, Deena, thank you so much for joining us on salt talks. It, it, uh, it's very encouraging to hear people like you with such a diverse background, uh, thinking about things like ethics in addition to investing in innovation. Um, so we're very excited. You're on the forefront of all these breakthroughs and look forward to doing hopefully more with you, uh, with the salt fund and other things that we're working on. And like I said, we'd love to have you at the salt conference in September. And, uh, if, if you need a babysitter, we can, we can collude on that. Um,
Deena Shakir: (48:07)
You might regret making that offer, but maybe I'll take you up on it. Thanks. Thanks for having,
John Darcie: (48:17)
And thank you for joining us again here on salt talks. And thank you everybody for joining us for this conversation today, with Dina Shakir, from Lux capital w one of the most fantastic, uh, venture capital firms, we think out there in the marketplace today, uh, solving big problems in a way that's also benefiting the world. Just a reminder, if you missed any part of this talk or any of our previous talks, you can access them on our website. It's salt.org backslash talk, and also on our YouTube channel, which is called salt tube. We're also on social media. Twitter is where we're most active at salt conferences are handled, but we're also on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook. And please spread the word about these salt talks. If you have people that are interested in how venture capital works and a lot of the innovations that they are helping to invest in, uh, please share this salt, talk with them, but on behalf of AIJ and the entire salt team, this is John Darcie signing off from salt talks for today. We hope to see you back here again soon.