“When it comes to financials in the family offices, I see a lot of the daughters taking charge and a lot of the fathers actually proud letting them take charge.”
Ida Beerhalter is co-head of IOME, a private investment partnership of women principals from the Gulf with its head office in Riyadh, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Additionally, Beerhalter currently serves as Vice Chairman of the Board of Trustees of Astia, USA.
It is important for a member of an educational family office to first understand who they are. This involves recognizing both strengths and weakness in order to then set up an effective structure and team. More women in family businesses are getting involved and taking control of their financial destiny which offers a new form of empowerment. It is important for women to learn about themselves in the work place and ultimately use their skills to thrive. This often involves helping women find their voice, literally. “We had training for [women’s] voices, for them to speak up. As an example, we did it by screaming through a park.. I have them read something, different sentences, and I need to hear it even 50 meters away.”
LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE
SPEAKER
Ida Beerhalter
Co-Head
IOME Private Investment Office
MODERATOR
Anthony Scaramucci
Founder & Managing Partner
SkyBridge
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Rachel Pether: (00:08)
Hi everyone, and welcome back to SALT Talks. My name is Rachel Pether, and I'm a senior advisor at Skybridge Capital based in Abu Dhabi, as well as being the emcee for SALT, a thought leadership forum and networking platform that encompasses business, technology, and politics.
Rachel Pether: (00:26)
Now, SALT Talks, as many of you know, is a series of digital interviews with some of the world's foremost investors, creators and thinkers, and just as we do at our global SALT conference series, we aim to empower really big, important ideas and provide our audience the window into the mind of subject matter experts.
Rachel Pether: (00:45)
Today we'll be focusing on wealth and why it can be both suffocating and liberating. I'm very excited to be joined by someone I consider a dear friend, Ida Beerhalter, the co-head of IOME Private Investment office. An investment partnership of women principals in Saudi Arabia.
Rachel Pether: (01:03)
Now, Ida has a number of strategic advisory and board positions, a not for profit organization focused on propelling women's participation as entrepreneurs and leaders. Ida also acts as senior advisor to Women Empowerment Global Forum, and the Female Board Pool, a European organization that focuses on a [inaudible 00:01:23] woman to board of director positions.
Rachel Pether: (01:26)
Now as always, if you have any questions for Ida during today's talk, just enter them in the Q and A section of your screen. Ida, thank you so much for joining us today.
Ida Beerhalter: (01:36)
Thank you for having me.
Rachel Pether: (01:40)
Now, firstly, maybe you could start. We were having a conversation just before. I've known you for some time and I've never actually known what IOME stands for. So maybe before we begin, you could actually outline what IOME, I-O-M-E, stands for.
Ida Beerhalter: (01:58)
So there are three meanings. When we named the child, we had different ideas and at the end everybody was happy, actually IOME is a word play. Like saying I Own Me. Then the one like me who wanted a very rational name is Investment Office Middle East. Then also what we are doing is the I is for Invest, the O is for Observe, the M is for Mentor, and the E is for Educate. So we were quite happy with the outcome, so that everybody got the meaning they wanted.
Rachel Pether: (02:30)
I love that. I also love the fact that you take your nice German structure to the name. To maybe we start there, your German by origin. Tell me what took you to Saudi Arabia a decade ago.
Ida Beerhalter: (02:47)
So what made me brought there. I was involved with this woman leadership, like Astia, and I was a trustee there. Then, I did a talk in London about woman leadership and at the time I worked for a Swiss family office. The talk brought me to the attention of some people who actually wanted to control their wealth themself. We ended up that I went to Saudi, we had a conversation. We actually had no idea except that there was the desire to be in control of wealth and their financial destiny and what to do. In the end, we founded an educational family office. For example, my husband asked me when I came back from Saudi after my first strip what an educational family office is, I actually had to reply, "I'm not sure yet, we will figure it out in the way."
Ida Beerhalter: (03:41)
It was also for me a journey because it combined what I did. A family office, but the empowerment part, especially the empowerment part of women. Over the years, we then found out that taking charge of your financial destiny means a lot. It also means that you have to take on responsibility, you have to take charge of not just financial but social destiny and your educational destiny, and that you have to... it's not just being rich. Being rich is hard work if you want to do it the right way.
Rachel Pether: (04:21)
So, this was 10 years ago that your husband said to you, "What is an educational family office?" If I was to say that to you now, what would your response be?
Ida Beerhalter: (04:30)
It's a holistic thing. First, you have to find out who you are, what you are, and what your ecosystem is. That's the most important thing. Especially when you are... are you to owner of the wealth? Are you just the beneficiary of the wealth? Are you the nominal owner of the wealth, that other people control your destiny because you have no clue what's going on with your investments? Do you want to know what's going on with your investments, or are you rather the ignorant type? For me, it's important that you are honest with yourself and found out who are, what your capabilities are, what your talents are, and then you have to structure everything around it what you want to be or what you can be. Sometimes you have to accept that it's not possible.
Ida Beerhalter: (05:13)
We have, for example, the situation that we had a woman in the network who was, let me say, intellectually not very gifted. So actually it was quite dangerous for her to assume that she could control her wealth in a way, but it was more likely that other people who are much more intelligent than her would take advantage of her. So we build up a system for her that she was surrounded by people she could trust and people who would not take advantage of her. Her talent is actually in the artistic field. So she could go and pursue her artistic talent, we have different talents. So for example, there are people who can't cook and people who are fantastic at cook. Then it comes to intellectual capabilities. We judge people more harsh and I really don't understand it, why that is the case.
Ida Beerhalter: (06:01)
But if you are wealthy, you are very vulnerable because wealth attracts per se a lot of the wrong people for the wrong reasons. This was my nicest journey because she was always embarrassed because she knew that she was not, let me say quite colloquial, the brightest bulb in the lamp, and she tried to hide it all the time. It took a lot of energy for her to do that. By using the time for hiding this, she lost the opportunity to look after her artistic talent. Now, she is in a situation where her wealth is controlled, she understands what's going on because there are people who are trustworthy and explain it to her, people who respect her for who she is, and know that she needs more time to understand financial things, and she can use her money to support artists and pursue her artist destiny. For me that was one of the most beautiful things that at the end, we found something which works perfectly for her without barking up the wrong tree.
Rachel Pether: (07:06)
Yeah, that's a really great story. Thank you for sharing that. You mentioned vulnerability, Ida, so maybe we can dive a bit more into some of the issues that come with wealth. It can be both liberating and suffocating at the same time. So maybe talk me through some more of those issues, and also how you're dealing within the Private Office.
Ida Beerhalter: (07:32)
So, you are as vulnerable as your ecosystem, then you're very wealthy. Not a lot of people choose really the ecosystem or think about the ecosystem. You're born in a family, that's your first ecosystem. Then your other ecosystem develops out of that. A lot of people don't really sit back and ask themself, so what would I choose for myself if I could choose? You know, sometimes your parents give you advice for your professional destiny and they're maybe not the best people to ask because they live in their own ecosystem, they have their own kind of piece of knowledge. This is the same for financial destinies. So your vulnerable because people creep up to you with intentions because they want to sell you something or they want to participate in your wealth. The only question that you have to ask, that's fine if people want to participate, but is it justified that they participate. So is it somebody who works for you in a capacity which is beneficial for you? Or is it just somebody who takes advantage of you, drags you into the wrong things? Does not really let you grow but rather keeps you back.
Ida Beerhalter: (08:51)
There are family offices who by design keep the moment of wealth owners stupid and distant from their wealth. Trust funds is a special example. You make a trust fund to keep the money from your children or the control from your children, and you trust that the people administer the trust fund are the better people. That might be the case but it also might not be the case. You know, a lot of the trust fund kids where a lot of people are paid as trustees, and they are not paid meager money, to take care of the money and they do it sometimes better, sometimes worse.
Ida Beerhalter: (09:31)
If you want to read about Hershey chocolate. There is a book about the Hershey family and about how the foundation and everything went wrong because it obviously went in the hands of the wrong people. In the end, the intention of the people who created the wealth and what happened to that is one of the most irritating examples I know of. There are many more. [crosstalk 00:09:58]
Ida Beerhalter: (10:00)
Excuse me, when the [inaudible 00:10:02] is that you are afraid of that it becomes public knowledge. Especially in the Middle East I found a lot of people who said, "Oh you know, I was taken advantage of. Sometimes people stole my money," and I say, "Why don't you go after them?" They don't because they don't want to lose face. The crooks build on your fear of losing your face and they'd rather lose their money. This frustrates me sometimes a lot.
Rachel Pether: (10:34)
What's that saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, I think that comes into play a bit here as well. I want to go a bit deeper into the ecosystem piece, especially because I know you focus a lot of the female principals. So tell me a bit about how the gender biases play out in this relationship in terms of trusting someone of being taken advantage of. What are some of the biases you see there?
Ida Beerhalter: (11:06)
I think first one of the positive biases is that women have a very good gut feeling, much more than men. If they learn to trust it. Sometimes they don't trust the gut feeling because they are limited by their culture. For example, you have to respect an elder man. Or you respect an elder woman. It's the same. There are some biases or some things which keep you from thinking clearly. It's like a fog in your brain.
Ida Beerhalter: (11:38)
A lot of cultures, men with a lot of children are respected people of a society, and I always ask myself why. Why is the ability to see a lot of children say something about a person, the character of a person? There are other things and if you start thinking about that... this is what we do a lot, to think about what triggers the emotion positively, negatively. So why do people trigger your fear to lose a good business opportunity, to make you sign a piece of paper and sign off your investments. So there are some simple things where you can learn to start saying no also to yourself. You don't sign what you don't understand and you're not afraid to tell people, "I don't understand because it's not my problem that I don't understand. If you want to sell me something, it's your problem to make me understand. It's not my problem. If you can't, I don't buy." So being a little bit more harsher.
Ida Beerhalter: (12:40)
Then, especially in the Middle East culture, you tell a good woman is kind of shy, she rather doesn't look people in the eye, there are a lot of things where you virtually train habits, so socially habits, which when it comes to your wealth are really harming yourself. You have to split your personality. It's not difficult because I have also split personality. I am different when I'm with my children, as a mother, than I am with my parents or when I fight with my husband. So you just need to consciously split your personality with more that you say, in a social context, as a wealthy woman, I behave that way. But then it comes to my money and I talk with a banker, I actually look him in the eye and I'm not afraid to even use the F word at one point if I deem it fit.
Ida Beerhalter: (13:39)
So you have to add a layer to your personality where you can act in this environment, in this ecosystem, in a reasonable way that you can make your point. So it doesn't mean that you do the same in your social system, except you want to change your social acceptance. If you want to be heard by your father that you might want to be a candidate to take over the company, or to manage the wealth of the family, then he must see you and he might be very uncomfortable because if he only is used to women in a different context, then you have to give him time to get used to you. To this new you. You cannot go in like with a machine gun and tell people now I'm this person, I want this. Because you live in a ecosystem, you live in a family, you have to give people time to adjust and sometimes you have to leave a certain ecosystem because you cannot grow. But this is an even harder decision, especially when it comes to family.
Ida Beerhalter: (14:45)
We had this situation as well, where the lady made a conscious decision to stay in the family because she said, "My money, or the control of my money, is not worth leaving my family behind and this would be the only option. I have to tell my father I'm leaving you, and my brothers, because they don't trust me to handle the money." She made a conscious decision, and a conscious decision is much more better to live with, to accept, than a decision which is forced on you and you always regret the circumstances and you feel like a victim. If you take on to make a conscious decision you are no longer a victim.
Ida Beerhalter: (15:26)
I think women need to think consciously in what situation they have to be who, and add just this other layer. This is what we did with the financial thing. We say, "You know what, if it's your money, you look people in the eye, you have a very harsh handshake because it's good to set the scene, and you make your point." You even speak loud, you speak in a voice you would never think about speaking to your parents. So we had training for the voices, for them to speak up.
Ida Beerhalter: (16:02)
As an example, we did it my screaming through a park. Where I stand in front of them and then we made more and more distance, and they had to say a sentence to me and I need to understand the sentence. I have them something to read, different sentences, and I need to hear it even 50 meters away and they really had to shout at me for me to understand what they are doing. It was one of our most embarrassing exercises in the middle of London, where I think a lot of people are thinking about calling the guys with the white suits with the long arms. But it was part of the game. We enjoyed it.
Rachel Pether: (16:41)
That's an excellent story. I'm happy you're doing that in a London park rather than in Saudi or in Abu Dhabi. That might have saved you [inaudible 00:16:50].
Rachel Pether: (16:50)
What I think is most interesting, you talk about tourism [inaudible 00:16:55] and I think it's quite easy for people like yourself and myself having grown up in the western background, we appreciate it. We can make [inaudible 00:17:07] choices, we've always had that freedom. It's quite a cultural shift when you've never really had choice. An audience question has actually come in: given you've been in Saudi for 10 years, have you noticed a shift in recent years [inaudible 00:17:26] MBS coming into power and relaxing some of the other [inaudible 00:17:30] Saudi, like giving women the power to drive, etc. have you seen that accelerating cultural shift?
Ida Beerhalter: (17:37)
Actually, I would say, and I'm not sure if this is offensive, but I would actually say that MBS is a female role model because he is a role model for some men to change the system in the way where they know they have power and they say, "I use my power for the good of others." So he opened the country a lot. I really think he forced some men out of their comfort zone and tell them, "You know what, your comfort zone was this totally covered up, not very empowered women, and now we accept that our female population is part of our essence. So we don't ignore the essence any longer because we want the talent, we want the education we invest in them. So why would you educate the women and then don't let them use the education you give them?" I really see this, and an outer, let me say, signal, the clothing restriction had loosened up a lot. I think that it's also important that it's not just in the mind of the people but also visible to the people. The men who are more afraid to leave the comfort zone, because they believe that when woman is taking charge that there's a danger, they get more comfortable. Of course there are aggressions, because the people who fear the change, they fear and they're only option is to become aggressive. You still have them also.
Ida Beerhalter: (19:32)
So the country has changed a lot and I really hope that this road to direction, which whatever the pace the country is able to go, is going because as I said, for me you can't ignore half of your essence, your human essence, by making the other half comfortable and actually telling them you harm your essence to be more comfortable. It's like a bit you have a fantastic piece of land or garden, whatever, and you don't plow it, you just shut it off, let it lying bare and not develop it.
Ida Beerhalter: (20:12)
I really like the energy in the country. What you feel the [inaudible 00:20:21] of people want to do something and I'm not sure if it's just my feeling, but I see a lot of entrepreneurs. I hear from a lot of people that they want to create businesses. A lot of ideas and sometimes crazy ideas, but the crazy ideas are the really creative ones. You see the arts coming up, you see the sports coming up. So there's a lot of development, mental development, the mental societal development which is amazing. The pace they are going is breathtaking.
Ida Beerhalter: (20:55)
I think a lot of the men over there who support the women should not be offended by me saying they are female role models. The same like some women out there, I know some women there who are actually male role models, who let men be in awe of them. If you, for example, see Reema bint Bandar, who is the U.S. Ambassador, or the ambassador of Saudi to the U.S., she is for me a male role model because she shows that what women can do and makes men more not comfortable, they're much more comfortable. Sometimes she might even force the issue by being who she is. So people can't ignore her, they can't put her back in the box.
Ida Beerhalter: (21:40)
So for me it's an amazing development. I just don't see it only in Saudi Arabia, so it's not just the kingdom, I see it in a lot of other countries in the Middle East, but this is what I always try to point out. It's not that we are investing time so far ahead. My mother, when she had a working contract, wanted to open a bank account, my father had to sign. That was '75. 1975. It's not so long ago. I was 10 years old. Where my mom had my father to sign her opening of a bank account. So, we try to ignore that, but just look a little bit in history. See the women rights for women in Switzerland. It's not that long ago. So I think they should not be too arrogant when we talk about Saudi now making the choice to empower their other 50 half of the population. It doesn't look good on us if we are too arrogant because they can read as well. If they look in our history, they might say to us, "You know what, it's not too long ago since you had the same situation."
Rachel Pether: (22:59)
Right. Absolutely. Although, at the risk of sounding arrogant, I would like to add that New Zealand was the first country in the world to give women the vote. We do have [inaudible 00:23:08] so just like to drop that in.
Rachel Pether: (23:12)
We had a number of audience questions come in and they're actually related to my questions. I'll ask them now. Thanks as always for your question Ken. He said, "Such an impressive effort. What other kind of advocacy in Saudi Arabia in general is either seeing for better educating women on financial management or addressing institutional norms in financial management." So maybe having a little bit more on the financial and investment [inaudible 00:23:42].
Ida Beerhalter: (23:45)
As I'm focused on the family offices, so I don't really can say a lot of the financial institutions. I see a lot of women in all the KPMG, EY, I see a lot of lawyers. So I see coming them virtually... It's like they are coming out of the hiding. So you see them everywhere. You see them in the banks. So when it comes to financial in the family offices, I see a lot of the daughters taking really charge and a lot of the fathers actually proud, letting them take charge.
Ida Beerhalter: (24:20)
I actually a situation when I was in Jeddah in March, I met a family which has... they have daughters and sons, and I was totally amazed that actually the principal, the wealth owner, said, "You know what, my middle daughter will be the one because she's the most gifted." He really made the choice based on different things, he didn't choose the eldest son, he didn't choose the eldest daughter. He really looked at his children and not as a father, but as somebody who has a company and choosed the middle daughter to be the best candidate. Also the one who wants to do this, because it's the important thing. What he said, "I need somebody who wants to do this, not who can do this." So you see, also the mindset's changed a lot.
Rachel Pether: (25:09)
So when you go and sit with the female principals, I know you mentioned that overall let's call it a competency test, for lack of a better description, do you also train them in financial literacy, for example, so they can make better decisions for themselves? If that is, A, something they want to do, and B, something they [inaudible 00:25:33] to do.
Ida Beerhalter: (25:34)
So the principle I follow is that I think if you are an investor you need an ecosystem, you need trusted people around you. So what I do, I teach them about each and every geography, each and every asset class and every sector. But in a very high level because I want to see what I catch higher. If you want to do something right you have to do an interest in that. For example, if you have someone who's interested in tech, then I pursue that. Then I introduce to this principal people in tech who are either fantastic tech investors, fantastic tech entrepreneurs, and then let her build up her own ecosystem. She needs to have an ecosystem, she can't obviously go into mine, but she needs to surround herself with people which are her people, not my people.
Ida Beerhalter: (26:26)
Then when she has this network, I always tell them, "If you want to start investing, don't invest money, invest time." Invest time in relationship, building up relationship, because you need to have a little black book of people to ask. To call and say, "You know what, I want to invest in this, could you have a look?" Or, "I want to invest in this, would you be a co-investor?" Or people who call you said say, "You know what, I have a fantastic investment, come in as a co-investor and I accept you as a co-investor with 100,000 or 50,000 bucks." This is the other rule I tell them.
Ida Beerhalter: (26:58)
When they start investing, when they start investing on their own, the rule is no more than $100,000 U.S. dollars. Which sounds ridiculous in comparison to the wealth they have, but this is learning more than putting money in. Learning how to read the contracts, learning how to have the discussions, getting the board seat, having influence, reading reports, getting deeper in the sector or geography or asset class you like. What I also do I connect them with families who are in this special asset class.
Ida Beerhalter: (27:33)
For example, I had an example when it comes to [forests 00:27:35]. We have in Germany an aristocratic family who do [foresting 00:27:40] 850 years. If you do [foresting 00:27:43] 850 years, there's not much for people can teach you. If one of them would be interested in [forests 00:27:49], I would step aside, would make the introduction to this family, and then she could go there, she could live with them, she could get to know them. Actually, this was the first mentor set up IOME, this gentleman, his name is Prince Michael zu Salm-Salm, he told me, "If anybody wants to know something about [forests 00:28:10], I invite them to stay at my house, which is actually a castle, and I teach them everything." He said, "if they're really good and talented, I might even pay them a salary."
Ida Beerhalter: (28:22)
So this was an interesting conversation we had. This is when we connect the ecosystem. I think the most important thing if you want to invest, you have to have an ecosystem of people who are good investors, decent investors, and doesn't include people who are rich and talk about their Ferraris, Maserati, their yachts, their jewelry, whatever. This is not the mindset you need.
Rachel Pether: (28:50)
Definitely. That investment and education and experience is something you're always going to get a good return on that, so definitely worth putting in the time and effort.
Rachel Pether: (29:00)
We had a question coming in from [inaudible 00:29:03], this is a very challenging one actually. He's asked, "How can men improve their connection [inaudible 00:29:09]?"
Ida Beerhalter: (29:10)
I didn't get the question because it was cut off. What is the question? How can men-
Rachel Pether: (29:16)
He has asked, "How can men improve their connection with their gut instinct?"
Ida Beerhalter: (29:23)
Their connection with their-
Rachel Pether: (29:24)
With their instinct.
Ida Beerhalter: (29:26)
With their instinct.
Rachel Pether: (29:26)
Their gut feeling. Their instinct.
Ida Beerhalter: (29:30)
I think it's really going back to yourself. First you have to understand and learn about yourself. I mean, not just the bright side but also the dark side. Then if you see it within yourself, then you see it also in others. It's a little bit like, it might be a very real example, but if you are, for example, a lot of women experience it. The second somebody tells you are pregnant, you are suddenly surrounded by pregnant women you haven't seen before. It's the same when I got glasses, the first time I got glasses I realized how many shops selling glasses are around me, which I never ... So you [inaudible 00:30:10] gets bigger.
Ida Beerhalter: (30:10)
The thing is, when you want to learn about you it's really pushing your boundaries. You have to get out of your comfort zone. This is actually what we do in the office every year because I let the ladies make a list in the first time I sit with them, I let them make a list of things they don't like and things they are afraid of. One, for example, at the top of list she didn't like to swim. Guess what I made her do? She got 40 swimming lessons. The one who was shy, she said she doesn't speak in front of audiences, she got singing lessons. I made her, in just for 40 hours, you don't do it for life. Because something changes. If you have a very timid voice and then somebody "forces" you to have 40 singing lessons. You learn to breathe, you have a different stature, you know to modulate your voice, you come out of it with a new skill set which you never would have chosen because you feel uncomfortable. So actually they call it my list of threats because I pick every year something from this list where they do the stuff.
Ida Beerhalter: (31:19)
If you have this 40 hours, it's the same, you don't like hiking, you do this 40 hours. After that you can decide if you don't like it. But if you have never done it, why do you know you don't like it. So you get your instinct for it, you develop as a person and you face your fears. But that, you see other people's fears. You learn to read body language, which is important, because the unspoken language is the thing where people really communicate. It's a very old thing that I think 70% of the communication is non-verbal. I think 15 is paraverbal, like the loudness of the voice. The rest is the verbal one.
Ida Beerhalter: (32:04)
So a lot of us have not learned to have the paraverbal and the non-verbal language any longer, and you have to go back to that. With your own language, because you have to also show what you signal to people, and the good thing is to start with your instincts. If somebody doesn't like you... you meet somebody, somebody doesn't like you. Think about why. Why this person doesn't like you. Maybe you threatened the person, they feel uncomfortable, maybe you look weird, or you are having a [crisis 00:32:41] posture. Try to think about it. Sometimes you meet people you don't like. The same question. Why? Why do you see somebody and say, "Oh god. What a jerk." Why do we have this? Without knowing somebody. What is going on? Then you get much more in touch with yourself and your surroundings and then the rest is just... it just takes over from there.
Rachel Pether: (33:02)
Yeah. I like the fact that you really encourage the female principals that you work with to just get out there and do something. They may realize it's not going to be perfect, but that's okay and they can still enjoy, it can still be great. The main thing is just trying.
Rachel Pether: (33:25)
One other interesting thing Ida, when you move out to Saudi, how did you find it from a cultural perspective in terms of being integrated into this environment which is quite closed to outsiders. Was it easy for them to trust you? Tell me a bit about that process.
Ida Beerhalter: (33:48)
At the beginning, because we were all thrown at the deep end, there as a lot of trust involved. I think it was also that we had a natural connection because we gave up something. I gave up my job in the Swiss family office, which a lot of people still say to me, "Why would you ever do this?" They gave me their trust because they had to tell me over time... Trust was developing. There's also the example when trust builds who have to accept that people don't tell you everything at the beginning. So I had the situation where I knew that the lady was married. So that was my first information. After, I think, three, four months the information extended that she was not the only wife. Then at one point she was the youngest wife. So I got more and more information. So at the beginning it was just a blissful, I'm-happily-married-with-my-husband story. Then over time, trust is a relationship and it's like you have a first date and then you get to know the person and obviously, not many people at the first date spill all the beans. You try a very good impression at the first date. It's a little bit like that.
Ida Beerhalter: (35:16)
So it developed over time and it was also at a certain pace. I think you have to give people space to come to you and also tell you things they want to tell you. I always told them, me as a family office, I need to know your dirty laundry because the dirty laundry is where the risk is. So for example, if you are the third wife of somebody, that's a totally different situation than if you are in the relationship with just one wife and one husband. It's a totally different setting. Then I adjust my way to that.
Ida Beerhalter: (35:54)
Culturally, we learn from each other. I'm typical German, I want time. Obviously, I was the only one on time at the beginning. Now it changed in a very interesting way that I'm mostly the one who was late, which is ridiculous, but it becomes worse and worse. Another thing when it comes to cultural thing is that the Saudi politeness, when they cancel a meeting they had always this sick aunt or sick child or sick somebody, that made me sick because I know they were really lying to me by being polite. So I told them at one point that, "In Germany we are superstitious, if you tell somebody you're sick, this person will be sick." Actually, since that time, no more sickness when we cancel meetings.
Ida Beerhalter: (36:49)
So we learned from each other. So they straight said to me now, "I don't have the time, I'm too tired." Tell me what really is the case. This is also a sign of trust that they really tell me, "You know what, I canceled this meeting because I'm tired. I don't have the mood for that today, to go over the finances." This is fine, I like it more than somebody telling me, "My aunt is sick." We add a lot of honesty with the trust. Actually our honesty is quite brutal meanwhile. Really tell us the truth, which is interesting and sometimes uncomfortable. So you can say our comfort zone is expanded. We feel much more comfortable in being brutally honest with each other, and this took time. A lot of time.
Rachel Pether: (37:40)
Yeah. There's definitely something to be said for being brutally honest with people and knowing that their trust is there and you have that environment where you can say what do you believe. I'm very said, Ida, that the one cultural trait you picked up was being late. That is extremely un-German, but never mind.
Rachel Pether: (38:02)
I just wanted to read out a comment and we have time for one more question. We do have someone from the audience saying that she loves your inspiration [inaudible 00:38:12] to believe in yourselves and what's get women to willing to pull out their stories and flex what stands in their way of [inaudible 00:38:20] life they really want. So thank you Brenda for your comment there.
Rachel Pether: (38:24)
Closing question Ida, I know you have been out, you haven't had the opportunity to go in Saudi for a while now. When you do eventually get back there, what are you most looking forward to?
Ida Beerhalter: (38:38)
I didn't get that, you cut out again. When I get there, what?
Rachel Pether: (38:45)
You haven't had the opportunity to go back to Saudi for a while now. When you do eventually get back there from this pandemic, what are you most looking forward to?
Ida Beerhalter: (38:56)
Actually just sit down and have dinner. I want a [capsa 00:39:01], I want grapefruit juice. There are a lot of things. I just want to sit down and see the people. Seriously. We can do a lot of things remote, but I miss the personal connection. I miss really the food. I'm the biggest date smuggler. Even, I'm still over the years not sure if I'm supposed to bring dates. But I'm too German, so if I ask and they tell me I'm not supposed to, obviously I won't do it. So I never ask. So I actually miss my dates because the stuff you get over here is not what you get in Saudi. Definitely not. So there are some things I'm missing a lot.
Rachel Pether: (39:44)
It's been a year, I'll make sure you get an early Christmas present.
Rachel Pether: (39:48)
But anyway, that's all we have time for, but I just wanted to thank you so much Ida, I know [inaudible 00:39:53] conversation. Thanks so much for giving up your time to join us, it's been a real pleasure.
Ida Beerhalter: (40:02)
Thank you so much. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk with you. Thank you.