“The more fund managers of color that we allocate, or that LPs allocate capital to, means the more people that look like them and have shared experiences with them, will receive funding dollars, as well.”
Marlon Nichols is a founding managing partner at MaC Venture Capital (formerly known as Cross Culture Ventures), which finds the entrepreneurs who are building the future for the rest of America.
A career started in consulting eventually led to venture because as a VC, one has skin in the game for the length of that investment. It offers the ability to directly shape the nature of the companies, support more diverse entrepreneurs and identify opportunities to address traditionally underserved communities through entrepreneurialism. Slowly, there are signs of increased focus on diversity in the venture capital space with many groups reporting on their diversity numbers. “A nerve has been struck, and people are digging in and seeing the value; not only the social value, but the economic value of diversity.”
Coining the term, “cultural investing,” it seeks to identify global behavioral shifts with potential staying power. Pop culture is the driving force, so it is used as a key indicator is predicting where major cultural movements are heading.
LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE
SPEAKER
Marlon Nichols
Managing Partner
MaC Venture Capital
MODERATOR
Anthony Scaramucci
Founder & Managing Partner
SkyBridge
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Joe Eletto: (00:07)
Hello everyone, welcome back to SALT talks. My name is Joe Eletto and I'm the production manager of SALT, a global thought leadership forum, and networking platform encompassing finance, technology, and geopolitics.
Joe Eletto: (00:19)
SALT Talks is a series of digital interviews with the world's foremost investors, creators, and thinkers, and just as we do at our global SALT conferences, we aim to both empower big, important ideas, and provide our audience a window into the minds of subject matter experts.
Joe Eletto: (00:34)
And today, we are thrilled to welcome, Marlon Nichols at SALT Talks. Marlon is a founding managing partner at MaC Venture Capital which finds the entrepreneurs building the future for the rest of America.
Joe Eletto: (00:46)
He's a former Kauffman fellow, and investment director at Intel Capital, with an extensive background in technology, private equity, media, and entertainment. Marlon's unique eye for global trends and shifts in consumer behavior has helped him capture many high potential investments which include Gimlet Media, MongoDB, Thrive Market, Fair, LSNR, Mayvenn, Blavity, Pipe, WonderSchool, and other companies that reflect overlooked markets.
Joe Eletto: (01:16)
He serves on the board of directors for Ajua, Blavity, Finesse, Kauffman Fellow's program LSNR, Riff, Sote, and WonderSchool. Marlon is the recipient of MVMT50 South by Southwest 2018 Innovator of the Year Award. A 2018 nominee of the ADCOLOR in Tech Award, Digital Diversity's Innovation & Inclusion Change Agent Award.
Joe Eletto: (01:41)
Was named PitchBook's 25 Black Founders and VC's to Watch in 2018 and 2019. Was the Techweek100 winner, and was named one of Silicon Republic's 26 VC professionals spearheading change.
Joe Eletto: (01:55)
He's been featured on TechCrunch, Fortune, Blavity, and NBC, and is adjunct faculty in entrepreneurship and venture capital at the SC Johnson College of Business at Cornell University.
Joe Eletto: (02:07)
If you have any questions for Marlon during today's talk, please enter them in the Q and A box at the bottom of your video screen, and now I am thrilled to turn it over to Sarah Kunst, a friend of the firm, and managing director of Cleo Capital to conduct today's interview.
Sarah Kunst: (02:22)
Thanks, Joe, and thank you, Marlon for coming, we're super excited to have you today, and we have a lot to talk about.
Sarah Kunst: (02:30)
We have been friends for a long time Marlon, and we've been in tech for a long time, but for everybody who has not known you for years, and years, tell us how you got here?
Marlon Nichols: (02:41)
Well, first of all, thanks for having me. It was great to get the email, or the call, and it's a pleasure to be here.
Marlon Nichols: (02:49)
I am the product of an immigrant entrepreneur; my mother. We're from Jamaica, and we moved here when I was about seven years old, and I watched her move from a housekeeper, and nanny, to a beautician, to then owning her own salon, and building that salon for about over 20 years. That salon essentially raised me.
Marlon Nichols: (03:17)
With that, I did my undergrad at Northeastern University and studied Management Information Systems, I was always interested in technology, and I thought that if I had a business degree, I could be helpful with my mom's entrepreneurial ventures.
Marlon Nichols: (03:30)
And so, graduated, and jumped right into the enterprise software world. I joined a seed stage enterprise software company right out of undergrad, and within a year, was asked to move to the U.K. to help launch that company in the U.K. to serve the U.K. and Europe.
Marlon Nichols: (03:52)
Three years later, that company was acquired by SAP, and I decided that I didn't want to be an operator and so, I shifted to the other side of the spectrum, and pursued a career in consulting. And so, I first worked with the Blackstone Group doing post M&A integration work. And then that shifted to more strategy consulting, focus on media and entertainment.
Marlon Nichols: (04:16)
And so, that was about a five year career for me in consulting and it went pretty well, I learned something about myself again, similar to the goldilocks story, right? Too small, too big, need something right in the middle. And so, what was right in the middle for me, was venture capital.
Marlon Nichols: (04:35)
I decided to go back to business school to pursue a career in venture. I chose Cornell University, I became the CEO of the school's MBA lead Pre-Seed Fund for the two years that I was there, and that enabled me to network into the venture community.
Marlon Nichols: (04:52)
I graduated with a job at Intel Capital. Quickly became an investment director, they sponsored me to be a Kauffman Fellow, which towards the end of that five year period, opened my eyes to the fact that I had wanted to also be an entrepreneur, but within venture.
Marlon Nichols: (05:12)
Set out create my first fund, which was called Cross Culture, we invested in 43 companies there, it's a very high performing fund to this day, and now we're on to our second fund, which we rebranded as MaC Venture Capital.
Sarah Kunst: (05:28)
Awesome, good and so, tell us about MaC. Tell us about Charles, and Adrian, your partners there. I've known all three of you separately, and you have three of the most accomplished prior careers before coming together to start a fund.
Sarah Kunst: (05:48)
Give us their bios in their absence.
Marlon Nichols: (05:50)
Yeah, and so, I am probably, the least interesting of all of the partners. You heard my background, I mean, Charles King was a Hollywood super agent when he was with WME. I mean, he managed the careers of folks like Oprah Winfrey, and Tyler Perry, Michael B. Jordan, Ryan Coogler, et cetera.
Marlon Nichols: (06:14)
And then branched out to create his own media company with a focus of making sure that black and brown folks had more representation... Better representation on the big screen, and on the major streaming platforms, and that company is called Macro.
Marlon Nichols: (06:30)
And then Adrian, Adrian was the fifth mayor of Washington, D.C., right? I mean, D.C., some could consider it a state, so he might as well be a governor. After leaving office, got tapped by Marc Andreessen to help create their regulatory practice, working with companies like AirBnb, and Lyft, et cetera. Helping them figure out how to navigate government, and regulatory agencies to build amazing companies.
Marlon Nichols: (06:59)
And then our other partner, Mike Palank who's also a WME agent, and worked with Charles at Macro for a while, also took the helm as acting CFO and CEO of a couple of startups himself. We just have a... It's an interesting DNA, because we have such varied experiences, but we get along so well, and see the world in such a similar way, that it just works.
Marlon Nichols: (07:29)
But those varied experiences helped us to create some really valuable relationships across a number of industries, that we can then leverage to help our portfolio companies grow.
Sarah Kunst: (07:46)
Yeah, absolutely. That's amazing. You've been an operator, and an investor, and have had a close-up look at entrepreneurship from your mom your whole life, do you love VC? I know that some of us are in it to maybe, change it a little bit.
Sarah Kunst: (08:03)
Tell us, what do you see as the pluses and minuses of our industry?
Marlon Nichols: (08:08)
Yeah. I like what I do, honestly, and it took me a while to get here, right? Just the mindset that I wanted to be in VC. The things that attracted me to it, or what I was looking for in my daily professional life was, one, I wanted to be around cutting edge technology all the time. I wanted to interact with super smart people that are very creative. You find that in most entrepreneurs.
Marlon Nichols: (08:38)
I also wanted to engage with companies at the strategy level, and I wanted to have some real skin in the game, right? With consulting, you can get a lot of that stuff, but you have no skin in the game. With venture, you're tied to this company for five to ten years, maybe sometimes longer, right?
Marlon Nichols: (08:59)
I did find those things, I find those things every day. I meet interesting people every day, I'm introduced to just provocative technology, and interesting solutions to real problems. I absolutely love what I do. Can the industry change? Absolutely. One, there's not enough diversity in the industry, not only racial, gender, and thought, we can get better on all fronts, and I think we need to in order to really realize the financial benefits that we all want to see.
Marlon Nichols: (09:41)
As an example, you think about underserved communities, and some of the challenges that those communities have seen over years, decades. And the fact that, if you apply technology to some of those challenges, we can solve them. And those represent billion dollar opportunities. We've invested in some.
Marlon Nichols: (10:04)
Unless you have a diverse team, investment team, to identify those opportunities and then to screen for the right founders to solve those opportunities, you're going to be sitting on the sideline, while these remarkable things are done, or created.
Sarah Kunst: (10:23)
Can you tell us a little bit about Kauffman Fellows; what it is, all of that?
Marlon Nichols: (10:27)
Sure. It's a two year fellowship in venture capital... Global fellowship. And it started out as wanting to basically, introduce talented people to venture capital and get them started in this space. It has evolved over the years to an organization that can help existing venture professionals become better venture professionals.
Marlon Nichols: (10:55)
And we do that through connecting to a pretty significant global network of the who's who, and the who is emerging, in venture capital. As well as, teaching some of the key traits that I think, make for a great leaders. How do you... Diversity, as I mentioned, right? Why is that important? Why should you embrace it, right?
Marlon Nichols: (11:25)
Part of why I was so excited about joining a board is, because now I have an opportunity to really shape what the venture capital community looks like going forward.
Sarah Kunst: (11:38)
Yeah, and that's so important, and we're very glad you're there. You and I talk about this a lot, and we're in conversations a lot about this, but what does the funding landscape look like for Black and Hispanic fund managers, and then also for Black and Hispanic founders, right?
Sarah Kunst: (11:56)
Especially, this year, of reliving the 1960s when it comes to the Civil Rights Movement, it feels like. Have there been changes? What are you seeing right now?
Marlon Nichols: (12:08)
Yeah. It's tough, right? It continues to be tough, however, I think, I'm seeing some chinks in the armor, there are some folks coming around and starting to realize that you're missing out on some possible exponential return opportunities as LPs, as you call it.
Marlon Nichols: (12:34)
I guess, the CIO was at Yale, just made a statement recently advocating for the need for diversity. Years past that never would've happened. We're starting to see a lot of endowments reporting their diversity number et cetera. Diversity has always been an interesting thing, because it ebbs and flows.
Marlon Nichols: (13:02)
At times, it's very top of mind, and then it goes away, and then rinse and repeat over the years. And what I'm finding this time around, is it seems to be sticking. A nerve has been struck, and people are digging in and seeing the value. Not only the social value, but the economic value of diversity.
Marlon Nichols: (13:33)
That's going to lead directly... The more capital that goes to diverse fund managers, will directly affect the number of diverse... And when I say diverse I mean, black and brown... Founders, that receive capital.
Marlon Nichols: (13:48)
Because it's human nature... We can try to game it all we want, but human nature is to work with, to be friends with, to spend time with people that resemble you in several ways, right? Whether that be, you just look alike, or you went to the same schools, or you grew up in the same communities, or you summered in the same towns. Whatever those things are that make you feel similar, and comfortable... That's what you're going to gravitate to.
Marlon Nichols: (14:22)
The more fund managers of color that we allocate, or that LPs allocate capital to, that means the more people that look like them, and have shared experiences with them will receive funding dollars, as well.
Sarah Kunst: (14:39)
Yeah, I totally agree. Awesome, well, be sure to drop your questions in the Q and A. Also, a great opportunity to pitch Marlon, he's a captive audience.
Sarah Kunst: (14:50)
Marlon, tell me, what can allocators and investors do? Right... You just said, it's super important to back more diverse fund managers, and diverse investors, so that more diverse people get funded. But what can allocators, and investors do to be better at both attracting to hire, as well as funding diverse talent?
Sarah Kunst: (15:12)
You worked inside of Intel Capital... And I've done the same thing, I've worked inside of large funds that aren't particularly diverse until we show up. What's the key to attracting that talent, and then what's the key to funding it?
Marlon Nichols: (15:30)
Yeah. I don't think it's any different from any other industry, right? If you put the word out that you are for recruiting diverse talent, then you'll get the applications, and you have to be open to receiving them, and truly vetting them, right?
Marlon Nichols: (15:50)
But then, it's about creating a community, a culture where they feel comfortable. There's been a lot of talk about the tech industry, and the woeful diversity numbers, and FANG does not have a hard time recruiting people of diverse talent in, they have a hard time retaining them, right?
Marlon Nichols: (16:19)
And that's because you're asking them to assimilate to a culture that doesn't quite fit all their needs, or considers their needs. And so, a big part of it is retention. If you let folks know that... If you're a venture firm, or you're a fund-to-funds, or whatever, and you are recruiting, you are going to get diverse candidates to apply.
Marlon Nichols: (16:46)
You got to pick the great ones, and then you have to create an environment where they can actually, feel comfortable, at home in, and thrive in.
Sarah Kunst: (16:56)
Yeah, I totally agree, I couldn't agree more. Amazing. So, what do you invest in? Tell us about the fund, and especially your areas of interest, and focus, and thesis, and what you're excited about right now, especially in this crazy COVID time... Stage, sector, all of it.
Marlon Nichols: (17:17)
Sure. That's a big question. I'll start with our thesis. We coined it, cultural investing. And for us, culture is the proxy for human behavior. Essentially, what we're doing is, we're trying to identify emerging behavioral shifts that are global in nature, and then doing a lot of research to figure out whether those shifts have stay power. Or put another way, can become a part of social norm or pop culture.
Marlon Nichols: (17:52)
And the belief is that, pop culture drives everything in our society. It's like the equivalent of having a crystal ball, right? If I can see where people are spending their time and money today, and I could see where people are going to spend their time and money in the future and invest there, then essentially, I'm investing in tomorrow's next great companies.
Marlon Nichols: (18:15)
That's the crux of our thesis, there's a lot technical stuff that goes into that, but I won't bore everyone with that here. And then, in terms of the areas we invest in... Well, the stage is seed stage, right?
Marlon Nichols: (18:32)
It's usually, we're a part of the first institutional round of capital that a startup is taking in, and we typically write initial checks up to 1.5 million seeking to get about 10% of a company at that stage.
Marlon Nichols: (18:50)
There are six areas that we've traditionally invested in. Commerce, which is leveraging the internet and mobile to sell products and services, and marketplaces are a subset of that. I love investing in very differentiated marketplaces. Fintech is another area, and the focus here is really about, the under and unbanked, and how do you move them or bring them on to the digital economy.
Marlon Nichols: (19:19)
And then health, or digital health, which is the convergence of telemedicine and traditional medicine, with the intention of fixing healthcare in the U.S. Driving down cost, driving up efficiencies, by leveraging technology.
Marlon Nichols: (19:36)
Immersive reality, and this is AR/VR et cetera, but for now, the focus is as intently on enterprises and how that technology can work, and solve real problems there for businesses.
Marlon Nichols: (19:51)
Media and entertainment, we have a lot of media and entertainment DNA, but what we're doing there is less around content, more around finding new and differentiated distribution channels, and platforms that can aid with the efficient creation of new content.
Marlon Nichols: (20:08)
And then regulatory, which really plays into Adrian's background. Where we're looking for companies that are building terrific, game-changing solutions, but that will bump up against the status quo, and will need help from our government allies, et cetera, to make it work.
Marlon Nichols: (20:34)
Those are the six areas that we typically invest in, and we lean heavy on the software side. We never say never in terms of hardware, but software is definitely our bread and butter.
Sarah Kunst: (20:47)
Awesome, that's so cool in so many things. What are some of the companies that you've invested in that you're super excited about in this moment, or just in general? I hate when people ask me this question, so I'm going to ask it to you.
Marlon Nichols: (21:01)
Which baby is your favorite baby?
Sarah Kunst: (21:06)
Classic. The one that pays you that's the answer.
Marlon Nichols: (21:08)
Yeah. There are a number of them. Probably, the hottest company in our most recent portfolio, is a company called, Pipe.
Marlon Nichols: (21:16)
Pipe is solving the friction between enterprise SaaS companies and their customers, in terms of, when you get paid, do you need to do subscriptions, etc. And it's also created a new exchange that allows these companies with recurring revenue to basically, fund their growth based on those recurring... Those contracts, essentially.
Marlon Nichols: (21:50)
It's a company that's growing very, very, very fast. It represents already, in less than a year, a 10X markup in our portfolio so, we're excited about that one.
Marlon Nichols: (22:03)
Another company in the media and entertainment space called Riff. They're basically, using three dimensional AI technology, to do dynamic and contextual product placement into film.
Sarah Kunst: (22:22)
That's amazing. And I know that your partner Adrian is very excited about one of your probably, most well-known on Instagram ad companies, NUGGS.
Sarah Kunst: (22:33)
And I won't lie, I'm not a big chicken nugget eater, and I'm not a big meat replacement eater, so I haven't yet had them, but so many of my friends are obsessed with them, it's like Supreme, if Supreme made chicken nuggets.
Sarah Kunst: (22:48)
Tell us a little bit about that one, just in case people have not yet heard.
Marlon Nichols: (22:51)
Yeah. That deal, unfortunately, was done before we got together. That was one of our legacy portfolio companies so, I don't know a ton about it, but you're right, every chance Adrian gets, he's posting about NUGGS.
Marlon Nichols: (23:07)
And their social media marketing game is just unmatched. But yeah, I think you gave the highlights of it.
Sarah Kunst: (23:15)
Yes. If you're looking for meatless chicken nuggets, NUGGS is your food.
Sarah Kunst: (23:21)
Tell us... How can founders make themselves more investible and easier for investors to back. I'm sure you're like me, and look at hundreds and thousands of companies every year, and there are probably, tons that... If they just were 10% better at the pitch, or the email, or the whatever, right... We might be able to dig in and find a gem.
Sarah Kunst: (23:47)
But I know for me, and maybe for you, I know I missed stuff, because the founders just... What they're building might be amazing, but the way that they're telling me the story, I just missed it.
Marlon Nichols: (24:02)
Yeah. One of things... Going back to the diversity conversation, right? One of the challenges is, how do you get in front of these investors? And it's not always fair, right? Because you may come from a place, or your network is very different from that of the folks you're trying... Whose attention you're trying to get.
Marlon Nichols: (24:25)
We have a channel on our website where any entrepreneur can reach out and fill out a quick form, give us their deck, et cetera. We commit to reading every single one of those as a team, and following up with the ones that make sense for us, right?
Marlon Nichols: (24:40)
That's just something that we're doing to make it easier for all founders to get access to us. Not everyone's going to get a favorable email back, but everyone's going to get a review, and a response.
Marlon Nichols: (24:56)
In terms of what founders can do, I think, it's two things. One, it's research, right? Introspection, and research as a pair. Really understand what type of company you're building, the scale and scope of it, right? And then, doing the research to find out which venture funds, or investors fit with that.
Marlon Nichols: (25:25)
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense if someone's focused on enterprise companies only, and you're a consumer company, for you to be reaching out, that's probably, not going to be a good fit, right? Square hole, round peg... Whatever.
Marlon Nichols: (25:40)
Do the research, there's so many investors out there, and be deliberate about who you're reaching out to and when. And then, the other thing I'd say is, follow their process. A lot of folks will tell you how they want to be reached out to, or how they prefer to connect.
Marlon Nichols: (26:02)
Some folks like just connecting on social media, and doing it that way. Some folks like to receive emails, some folks like for you to just submit your stuff on their... Whatever channel they have for you to submit it. Some folks like LinkedIn, right?
Marlon Nichols: (26:19)
You figure that out through your research, and just follow that direction.
Sarah Kunst: (26:25)
Yeah, I actually, say on my LinkedIn, instead of my bio blurb at the top... Do not reach out to me on LinkedIn to pitch me, please go to cleocap.com, and multiple times a day... And it's funny, because, the reason I say it is just because LinkedIn isn't a great tool for it, but then, I'm like, oh, God, I'm thinking about entering into a decade long relationship with this founder, that's harder to get out of than a marriage, and they couldn't read my only single, simple request.
Sarah Kunst: (26:54)
Candidly, never say never, but it makes me nervous about investee... About those founders, because I'm like, it's so hard to run a company, and there's so many things that are so hard to get right, that if you can't get those early, basic, obvious, I am telling you, in all caps, please, this is how to reach out to me right... What am I in for?
Marlon Nichols: (27:16)
Yeah, I mean we all have our little tests to see who should get the time, et cetera. But yeah, I'm less annoyed by it, and think of it less as a signal, it's more so, you probably just won't get my attention.
Sarah Kunst: (27:33)
Yeah, that's a great way to reframe it, look at you, that's what my therapist would say. Exactly, why give these people your attention? That's a good point so, if you're listening, you're wondering how to get in front of investors, they're preferred method is usually, not a bad place to start.
Sarah Kunst: (27:51)
If anyone has questions, drop them in the Q and A, Joe if you have a question, feel free to jump in, as well. But otherwise, let's just keep chatting.
Sarah Kunst: (28:03)
One thing that's come up a lot this year is, people are asking how the pandemic is impacting investing. As a really early stage investor, I've generally said, I don't think about it a ton, because there's an acceleration in trends, but the companies I invest in are pre-seed so, they're still going to be getting started years from now, when we're hopefully far past COVID.
Sarah Kunst: (28:25)
But has it changed how you invest? Or how has it made you think about investing?
Marlon Nichols: (28:31)
It hasn't changed how we invest. Because we have the fortune of being a little bit downstream from you, right? So, our sweet spot is, they have a viable product, and they're starting to get some feedback from the marketplace, right? We have some data that we can look at.
Marlon Nichols: (28:49)
In terms of COVID, I guess, the only additional thing that... Or the thing that, it puts a little bit more emphasis on is, can this company perform in down turns, as well as up turns, right?
Marlon Nichols: (29:06)
If it can't really, perform in a down turn, how much risk does that add to the equation, right? We're looking at that, but we've found in general, a lot of people have said this, COVID has proven to be an accelerant of trends.
Marlon Nichols: (29:27)
We talked about our thesis, which is all about behavioral trends, right? A lot of this stuff that folks are learning about now, we've already studied and have been investing along those lines, right?
Marlon Nichols: (29:43)
We have a pretty significant digital health portfolio already in place that's already appreciating, right? And rinse and repeat, right? It hasn't had an adverse effect on our portfolio today. In terms of meeting companies, that's a little bit different, right? Because you do the... Oh, let's go grab a drink, and let's get dinner, or lunch... You can catch folks in a moment where they're letting their hair down, and it's a relaxed environment, you have less of that now, right?
Marlon Nichols: (30:27)
One thing that I've been doing with the companies that we've invested in is, you'll get a random phone call, and text message from me, and we'll just jump on a FaceTime on... I don't know, 11 AM on a Saturday, just because, right? And not talk about the deal, or anything, just talk, right? So, I can get a sense of who you are, and are you someone that I want to spend time with for the next 10 years.
Marlon Nichols: (30:57)
You do things like that, and way more reference checks now, and blind reference checks, because you have less FaceTime.
Sarah Kunst: (31:04)
Well, more FaceTime, the app, less face time IRL.
Marlon Nichols: (31:06)
Yeah.
Sarah Kunst: (31:15)
How has that changed on your side, when you guys go out and fundraise, right? Because we'd go out and raise money from a lot of other people so, we have money to invest. What has that changed during COVID? Has it changed it during COVID?
Marlon Nichols: (31:30)
Yeah. We're able to have a lot more meetings, right? Because in the past, you'd have to schedule the in-person's in Boston, and Chicago, New York, and I live in LA, and now I can have all those meetings in one day, right? It condenses the process for us a bit.
Marlon Nichols: (31:52)
But then, on the flip side, we have seen one or two endowments and pension funds that are like, we absolutely need to meet in person, that's a part of our process. And so then, you'd have to... Difficult decision. Do I fly to Boston and have this conversation, or do we just take a pause on this one, and see how things pan out?
Marlon Nichols: (32:21)
Fortunately, I have a partner in Adrian that's not afraid of getting on planes.
Sarah Kunst: (32:25)
Nice.
Sarah Kunst: (32:29)
Actually, talk about that a little bit. Adrian splits his time bicoastally, you're in LA, he spent some time in San Francisco, a lot of the team is in LA... What do you think the future of work, both for VCs but also for startups looks like? Are we just going to be disembodied heads in different Zoom rooms forever? What happens post-COVID?
Marlon Nichols: (32:52)
I'll start with us, we're definitely going to keep our office, and all that stuff, right? We actually, share space with Macro, the media company, which creates a really interesting vibe, when you're blending startup founders, entrepreneurs, with creatives in the entertainment industry, right?
Marlon Nichols: (33:14)
Some really cool, and unique things happen that way.
Sarah Kunst: (33:17)
[inaudible 00:33:17] office?
Marlon Nichols: (33:18)
Yeah, wait till you see the new one.
Sarah Kunst: (33:21)
I need to come hang out, I just want to meet up, bro. I love it.
Marlon Nichols: (33:26)
Yeah. That's cool so, we're definitely going to maintain that, but because our team has been split between LA, and the Bay Area, and as you said, Adrian's back and forth to the east coast, we've always had the remote procedures in place, right?
Marlon Nichols: (33:44)
Our partner meetings have always been virtual, or partially virtual, some of us in one office space, and others wherever they are. We're set up for this, essentially. What I've been hearing from portfolio companies is that, for the foreseeable future, they're probably going to be fully remote. But longer term, there's probably going to be a satellite office wherever they consider their main hub to be. Where people can go to at different points throughout a year, or whatever.
Marlon Nichols: (34:22)
But for the most part, I think people are comfortable with being remote, and gaining access to great talent from wherever. Don't have to worry about convincing them to move, or dealing with that stuff. And I think, everyone is getting more and more comfortable with remote work, right? And being able to build a corporate culture remotely.
Sarah Kunst: (34:48)
Yeah so, if Oprah's not likely to show up at your office, you probably don't need one, I got it.
Sarah Kunst: (34:55)
We have a great question from [TJ 00:34:58]... What kind of international investment footprint would make you consider investing? Will you invest outside the U.S.? How do you think about that? What goes into that conversation?
Marlon Nichols: (35:11)
Yeah. When Joe was reading my bio, he called out two companies that are Kenya-based, Ajua, and Sote, both are Delaware domicile door, or incorporated, but they operate in Africa, essentially.
Marlon Nichols: (35:39)
What we're looking for in offshore investments is, one, who's a local investment partner that can be in the journey with us, because that's a long plane ride. And also, I don't know everything that I probably need to know about the local environment there, the culture, the economy, et cetera.
Marlon Nichols: (36:05)
So, you need a co-traveler that understands that so, we tend to get in with very strong local investors. The other thing is, can this be a product that is not solely for that part of the world? Can that product come to the U.S. or go to Europe, or wherever, and still be successful? Is it global in nature?
Marlon Nichols: (36:33)
And then obviously, the founders, right? Do you trust these founders, are they the right people to build this company, wherever it is in the world, essentially.
Sarah Kunst: (36:46)
Yeah, awesome. And do you invest in companies? I think you covered this, but... Do you invest in companies that don't have a U.S. presence? That don't have a Delaware Seed Corp? Because I know for me, I don't care where you're building, I just have to wire money to a U.S. bank account.
Marlon Nichols: (37:00)
Yeah, I just need to be comfortable with how the company will be... Which laws the company's going to be governed by.
Sarah Kunst: (37:10)
Exactly. As long as we can settle it in California court, game on. Yes.
Sarah Kunst: (37:16)
Awesome. And then [Steven 00:37:18] had a great question... What's the biggest difference between Intel Capital and being on your own?
Marlon Nichols: (37:25)
Yeah. My five years at Intel Capital were amazing. I learned a lot, and worked with some phenomenal people. The greatest difference though, is that it's a corporate VC and so, inherent in that, is that the investments have to be strategic to the company, right?
Marlon Nichols: (37:50)
And Intel was great, because it's an ingredients company so, strategic meant a lot of things, right? But there was still a universe of products and companies that I couldn't invest in, because they just didn't fit with the road map for Intel Corporation.
Marlon Nichols: (38:08)
I think, that's the biggest difference with being a financial VC, versus a corporate VC, it's a strategic mandate.
Sarah Kunst: (38:16)
Yes, yes. Awesome, and I think, we're almost out of time so, I just have one last question for you. It's far too rare I think, that conversations between two VC investors are two black people, right? And even more so, a woman. How do we make this less rare, right? You talked a lot about the tactics, but is there any... One piece of advice, or one thing to leave of... How do we make this the status quo, instead of a lot less common than it should be?
Marlon Nichols: (38:56)
I think just being more... We talked about the funding part of it, and what LPs need to do, but us as GPs, we just need to help each other, right?
Marlon Nichols: (39:09)
Whether that be around fundraising, sharing information about LPs that invested or didn't invest, and why that was the case? Making those introductions... If you get a speaking opportunity that you can't attend... Who can go instead of you, right? That is also black, that is also... That is a woman? Not also... That is a woman, right?
Marlon Nichols: (39:33)
It's just about putting each other on, and truly being co-travelers and allies.
Sarah Kunst: (39:41)
I love it, and I also love allies like SALT who have done an amazing job with bringing me on to have some of these conversations, and I think that, that's a huge part of it, as well. Because as they say in Africa, it takes a village. With that, thank you so much, Marlon, for coming on today, and thank you Joe, and SALT for having us.
Sarah Kunst: (40:04)
Marlon, if people here want to pitch you, where do they go to do it?
Marlon Nichols: (40:10)
macventurecapital.com/contact
Sarah Kunst: (40:13)
Amazing, amazing. Go find him there, and leave his LinkedIn alone. Awesome, thank you so much, Marlon, and thanks, SALT.
Marlon Nichols: (40:19)
Thank you, this was great.
Joe Eletto: (40:21)
Well, thank you both. I mean, it's truly a privilege to bring conversations like these to the SALT platform. I have a personal stake in bringing diverse conversations here as a member of the LGBTQ community. I don't see myself in these conversations, usually. I don't see myself in finance, I'm one of two people at SkyBridge, a very welcoming firm, who are out.
Joe Eletto: (40:43)
Thank you all so much.
Marlon Nichols: (40:45)
Thanks.