“We are a young country with a history structured around families.“
Nabyl Al Maskari is the Executive Chairman of Al Maskari Holding (AMH), a privately-owned holding company of the Al Maskari portfolio and controls the family's operating subsidiaries, joint venture companies, strategic partnerships, and private equity. AMH traces its foundation to 1968 with the establishment of the Al Maskaria Group in Abu Dhabi to engage in petroleum trading and oil field services.
Founded in 1971, the United Arab Emirates is the youngest country in the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). For comparison, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, celebrated its 90th Saudi National Day on the day of filming. The region has been characterized by its relationship with oil, but families like the Al Maskari are showing that it’s far more than a source of capital.
The two best-known emirates compliment each other with their diversity. Dubai is primarily focused on hospitality, while Abu Dhabi showcases the country’s heritage and culture. Abu Dhabi now serves as an epicenter of capital flow into MEASA and the developing world.
Nabyl guides AMH by a simple principle from his grandmother: “Don’t profit from people - look to serve them.” Her Excellency Dr. Shaikha Al Maskari, Nabyl’s mother, was a trailblazer unto herself: among the first women in a leadership position in the private sector, first female petroleum engineer in the GCC region. He looks to continue his family’s contrarian history by transitioning the company’s focus from oil to clean energy.
LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE
SPEAKER
Nabyl Al Maskari
Executive Chairman
Al Maskari Holding (AMH)
MODERATOR
Anthony Scaramucci
Founder & Managing Partner
SkyBridge
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Rachel Pether: (00:07)
Hi everyone and welcome back to SALT Talks. I'm Rachel Pether. I'm a senior advisor at SkyBridge Capital, a global alternative investments firm, as well as the MC for SALT, a global thought leadership forum and networking platform [encompassing 00:00:23] finance, business, and politics. SALT Talks as a series of digital interviews with the world's foremost investors, creators and thinkers, just as we do at our global SALT events, we aim to empower big important ideas and provide our audience a window into the mind of subject matter experts. Today we're very excited to welcome Nabyl Al Maskari to SALT talks. Nabyl is not only someone I consider a true friend. He's also the CEO of Al Maskari Holding, which is the privately owned holding company for the Al Maskari family portfolio.
Rachel Pether: (00:57)
He's the third generation of leadership in what is a truly remarkable family, which I'm sure him and Anthony will be discussing shortly. Prior to joining his family conglomerate Nabyl was a management consultant for McKinsey. He sponsors philanthropic initiatives in Africa and Asia through his family's nonprofit foundation, and he actively supports high impact entrepreneurs as a board member of Endeavor UAE. Nabyl received his MBA with distinction from Yale. Hosting today's talk will be Anthony Scaramucci, the founder, and managing partner of SkyBridge, and also the chairman of SALT. Just a reminder, if you have any questions for Nabyl just into them in the Q&A section on your zoom screen. And with that, I'll hand over to Anthony.
Anthony Scaramucci: (01:43)
Rachel, thank you. And we're going to give a shout out in memoriam to John Dorsey because he had his last SALT talk yesterday. You're now the new host, so, welcome aboard. No, I'm just kidding, John. Okay. Take it easy. I know you're watching. I'm just kidding. Nabyl How are you?
Nabyl Al Maskari: (02:02)
Doing very well, thank you very much.
Anthony Scaramucci: (02:04)
So, Nabyl for those of us in the United States that are not super familiar with the UAE. Tell us a little bit about the UAE and also your family, your family's history there, and a little bit about your business and yourself. How's that? That's a big question Nabyl.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (02:22)
Sure. We're going to fit it all into the first question. Okay. I'll start where I think the history does.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (02:29)
So we're a young country and we were formed December 2nd in 1971, so we're less than 50 years old, but the history of the region obviously goes back much further and it's one very much structured around families. And I think that's a poignant way to connect the two, because ultimately, even though we have a constitution and we have a lot of federal structures, ultimately these are indigenous people that have grown up and really over the course of history, come to adopt a lot of the norms of government.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (03:00)
But ultimately the [familial 00:03:02] relationships, the way that we've interacted one another, respect, trust, loyalty, those things are just sort of in a new format of sort of the UAE. So for us as a family, although we of course look at the UAE as the most important recognition point, if it is a family business, we're actually older than the union, right? So in many cases, you're going to interact with people who have a long sense of historical perspective.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (03:27)
I think just a moment here, and it would be a nice reflection, today actually to talk about how young we are. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is celebrating its 90th anniversary today. And actually if we had really timed this better Anthony, about 15 minutes ago, you've been to my office here in Capital Gate. The jets had done a fly by if you remember my office is the hard deck and I would love it. And they were screaming the Saudi green colors in honor of that. So I think it's one of the fact that the region itself has a lot of age to it, but the countries are still young, not like the United States who itself is considered a young democracy.
Anthony Scaramucci: (04:04)
Sure. But you know, it's an amazing country. We had our SALT Conference there in December, obviously you and your family attended, Rachel was a phenomenal host. But the facilities there were amazing. Your country is a state-of-the-art country. So, tell us a little bit about the vision for the UAE, and then I obviously want to get into your family. So, tell us about the vision there.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (04:31)
Sure. Like many, we set out these goals and in many cases we've been very aspirational. I do think that it's important when you talk about the vision of the UAE to put it in the context that we are in a region that oftentimes is characterized by our relationship to oil. And I say that because the family foundation story is one of oil and gas. And even though many people from around the world may first think about the UAE in the context of being an oil producer, or for institutional investors being a location as a source of capital, it's much more than that. And it is used its natural resources as a way to transform, not only the infrastructure, but really the economy of the UAE to make it both vibrant, sustainable, but extremely competitive in a very new landscape.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (05:17)
So, today when you come to visit our country, depending if you land in either Dubai or Abu Dhabi, it's a very different experience, and I think they're complimentary [funds 00:05:26] . You've been to both cities, many who have come to Dubai, talk about the experience around hospitality, some of the glamor. And when they come to Abu Dhabi, it's a counterpoint around heritage and culture. And I think these two have a symbiosis in terms of how they're structured and really how we want to present ourselves to the world.
Anthony Scaramucci: (05:43)
It's an amazing place and God bless you guys. And I wish you continued success and shout out to our Saudi friends on their anniversary as well. And so let's go to the family for a second. Tell us a little bit about your family. Imagine I'm an American, visiting Abu Dhabi for the first time, and I'm walking into your office, and your family has quite a legacy in your country. So tell us a little bit about that.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (06:14)
Well, I think if you were to enter our offices, that the first thing you would see is kind of a trophy wall, and it's dedicated really to my mother. And then I think that's the first thing to know about us is that we are a matriarchal family. That's somewhat contrarian. And I think that the fact that my mother is largely known on sort of two [inaudible 00:06:31]. The first being, among the first real women in the leadership position, in the private sector, but also for her work in humanitarian causes around the world.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (06:41)
But for her and for our family, I think it goes back to a point of service. We look at ourselves as an [emirati 00:06:47] family, largely trying to find the mechanisms in which we can both empower the country and the citizens. And it really comes down to saying if in the past decades we were not able to identify our source, the kind of support internally, we as a family would often go overseas to identify the best partners, whether they be private companies or governments, and try to attract them into the region to help develop that maturity curve of our infrastructure.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (07:18)
So we went from oil and gas. We shifted into a lot of different verticals. It's healthcare, ICT, we do security work, but always with a focus towards the government or public sector, because we look at ourselves primarily as one that tries to support their aspirations. We don't feel that we're particularly suited to serving on the consumer side. So we're not a family that you will see on billboards. It's probably why many who are watching may not know our family name, but when you come into the government and the country, we're a family well associated with those specific areas, right. So we don't sell any products or services to individuals. And it goes back to a tenant said from my grandmother that said, don't profit from the people we look to serve them. And we do that by the way of our portfolio.
Anthony Scaramucci: (08:02)
It's an amazing story. I want you to know, I'm not giving up on trying to get into the will. I've talked to your mom about it. And so far the answer is no, but I'm just letting you know, I'm not giving up. I'm a persistent person Nabyl so..
Nabyl Al Maskari: (08:16)
I think AJ wants you to do that more than probably [crosstalk 00:08:18] .
Anthony Scaramucci: (08:18)
Right, exactly. My son AJ was blown away by her presence and charisma as am I by yours. I'm going to shift gears slightly here though. I want to talk a little bit about your legacy and how you're thinking about your family's portfolio and taking over from a very prominent matriarch. So tell us about the future vision of Al Maskari Holdings.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (08:44)
So I do think that when my mother was first involved in, in these sort of industry here, and she was the first woman PhD, first woman engineer, she's a PhD geophysicist that naturally meant that we were focused on oil and gas, right. It was literally in the blood and my father was a PhD geologist. So the focus by way of industry had always tilted them. But I like to think of ourselves as evolving into a clean energy family rather than an oil and gas family. And that means that we serve and we look to find ways that we continue to challenge kind of the precepts around what we do as a family. And that's really why we started getting involved with sort of my tenure of leadership, to do the international capital markets, because we started to really recognize that the traditional foundations, as a [inaudible 00:09:33] , a family, in order to continue to sustain the economy and diversify away from oil and gas, you needed to find mechanisms for both foreign investment as well as private sector investment.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (09:43)
And we could lead that in the way that we had led in generations past in oil and gas. So today, when I talk about my vision, it's really one, that's a reflection of this evolution of thinking and challenging ourselves, how do we remain relevant? How do we continue to best support and serve our governments and our countries? And I think ultimately that comes down to today, a dialogue around Abu Dhabi, which is my hometown as kind of a gateway to a much broader region. And I know you've had conversations in the past and you've heard us talk about the MEASA or Middle East, Africa, South Asia. But I do very much think that Abu Dhabi will always remain relevant because it's an epicenter, not only of resources, but it's an epicenter of capital flow to the growing part of the world.
Anthony Scaramucci: (10:27)
Well, and I'll add something to that. I think you're the country has a very well thought out infrastructure and a very well thought out long-term vision. And also from a regulatory perspective, it has this very interesting entrepreneurial platform where many people from many areas of the world can come into the country and establish a stronghold if you will, to reach the other areas of MEASA. So, but before we go into MEASA, let's talk about you have three beautiful daughters. God bless you. Tell me a little bit about how you view their future and how do you see gender diversity Nabyl?
Nabyl Al Maskari: (11:10)
Look, I look at my role very much as one a stewardship. We are a matriarchal family. I'm blessed as you say to have three daughters, we will be matriarchal for I hope long years to come. When I have this reflection on the time that I've been spending in family business is one very much of recognizing that the role of gender inclusion has really changed from when my mother's time was, which is going back to the 1970s and 80's, and really where we are today to give you a sense. And I think it's additionally sort of bookmark around the social experiment. And my mother, as we talked about was a first among service, first woman engineer, first woman PhD. And in some ways a generation later, my wife was a first in other areas.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (12:01)
So she was the first woman executive of a regional media entity. She was the CEO of Dubai Media. She was the first woman among the batch pointed to the Federal National Council, which is sort of our, I'm going to give you the sense that it's our parliament or it's our consultated body. And she was able to do these first because we are all on a trajectory that has an increasing arc of inclusion. And I think that when I look forward to my daughters, I hope that the dialogue is not qualified by being, they are the first woman, but rather they are just the first, because I don't think that the peaks that we have yet to discover or yet to ascend are going to be qualified by the fact that it is a woman to have reached thereafter, man, but rather it will be a woman to have reached irrespective of their gender.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (12:45)
So I have a strong aspiration to do that. I'm very blessed that my wife has had a strong leadership role in raising our children and in [inaudible 00:12:53] , we say here, I will be alive when I can see some of these first for them.
Anthony Scaramucci: (13:00)
I love it. It's a phenomenal message. So, last week, Russell Read, who's a partner of yours spoke passionately about the MEASA region and the high population growth and the rising consumption and the middle class. And I want to get your views. And for those that don't know, Russell Read, tell us a little bit about his background, which of course is amazing.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (13:26)
Sure. So look, Russell, I think first came onto our radar when he was serving in the GIC, which is the Gulf Investment Corporation. It's a Sovereign wealth fund owned by the GCC member States and it's based in Kuwait, but he had a long history prior to that at CIO of Calpers had moved after GIC into the Alaska Permanent Fund. And it was within that role that he had first approached us to talk about building this MEASA construct. And he's been a good partner to us, both in [inaudible 00:13:56], and of course in developing the strategy, we have chosen to take that, which now started as a public equity strategy. And we have continued to sort of apply that within the illiquid space and saying, how can we do this in private equity? So when you think about the region and I can give you a lot more color to when we think about MEASA and how do we characterize it, we see it one very much colored in, sort of opportunity.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (14:20)
I know that when I traveled to the Nordics and, you know well we've had a lot of experience up there. Many times the region is viewed with a perspective of risk, right? And, and I think that the reason we see opportunity is that in many instances, especially when you apply sort of fundamentals around ESG, you will see some of the leading opportunities actually occurring within the MEASA region. So to give some context to that, if we just look at the E-portion, right, and some of the work that's being done in the region around solar, we continue to send lower and lower benchmarks for the actual fit rate, right? So how cheaply can we produce sustainable clean energy? And from a PV perspective, we're down to extremely low lows at 1.35 cents a kilowatt hour. I mean, that is remarkable number.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (15:09)
When you talk about an energy mix that starts fundamentally with natural gas and our electricity, and it continues to evolve, right? So we're looking at setting new benchmarks for concentrated solar in having almost carbon neutral desalinated water. That would be again on a cubic meter basis, be amongst some of the lowest in the world being produced. So it's a competitive environment that [is 00:15:31] little bit structured around the natural geography. We are in a obviously sunny region, but it's the technology adoption that the leadership puts in place by way of investment policies attracting the right companies that as you said, it's a participation mechanism, right? We invite whether they be from far Asia or the United States, the leading entities to come in to set up, we partner with them locally, and we can actually set benchmarks that the rest of the world will then soon follow.
Anthony Scaramucci: (15:57)
Well, I think it's a long-term brilliant strategy, I do speak specifically about SkyBridge. We want to have a presence in the region and ultimately a presence in Abu Dhabi, which we've already begun. And so, unfortunately we're heading back to the region in December, but it's been delayed because of the pandemic, but we're hopeful and optimistic. We can be back in 2021. I want to shift gears a little bit to ESG Nabyl. Talk to us a little bit about the ESG investing that you're doing and ESG and the context of the region and the recognition that ultimately we'll be transferring the economies of the world, frankly, away from fossil fuels. Tell us your thoughts there.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (16:43)
Well, we primarily engaged with institutional investors. My father was one of the old guard of adia and so I've always had that sort of breakfast table mentality of how do you look at investing at scale, but in a way in which you can do so with prudence towards your investor base or your capital base. And, and largely when we talk with pensions institution investors, they obviously have integrated ESG into their investment thesis, not only from a standpoint of risk mitigation, but I also think that there is, there is some data depending on which markets you look at that ESG over time will outperform their relative benchmarks. And I think that we completely agree with that thesis. We see that in public equities, the challenge, I think Anthony is that when you start quantifying it and of the few rating agencies that are out there, so we look at like an MSCI or Sustainalytics .
Nabyl Al Maskari: (17:38)
In many instances, when you're talking about Western markets public equities, you find that there will be low correlation or even a negative correlation around some of their perspectives of an ESG rating composite given a specific equity. So I think that there isn't sort of conformity around the perspective of what ESG means. And I think that's the fundamental challenge we have when we adopt ESG. What we try to do is we try to norm that to the expectations of not only the LPs that we represent. More importantly, we're trying to develop that in tandem with institutional investors. So what we had an opportunity to do here locally is engaged in a dialogue with academia, ourselves as a private actor, engaging with our Sovereigns as well. And we hope to embark on an ESG lab, which we hope will be announced very shortly here in Abu Dhabi.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (18:27)
And it will be around creating the right research opportunities to say, can we develop framework for ESG in illiquid or private equity type opportunities in the MEASA region? Why? Because, ultimately that's where the capital flows will go. Whether it's an Africa, because it's a consumption and growth story, whether it's in South Asia, because there's going to be the belt road initiatives, you know that the capital will flow there. The question is, how will you deploy it at scale? And how will you adopt from a framework standpoint, the right not only strategy, but reporting mechanisms to allow those pensions that are sitting up in Stockholm or in York to be able to be comfortable with their strategies.
Anthony Scaramucci: (19:06)
So it's 2035, it's 15 years from now Nabyl. Tell us about Abu Dhabi, tell us about MEASA, tell us about Al Maskari Holdings. Where are we?
Nabyl Al Maskari: (19:21)
Look, I think a 15 year lens is an incredibly aspirational viewpoint. You know, when I grew up in, I think we've talked about this before, and I looked in the landscape of my office in just one short generation, it's completely changed. So the world in which I grew up in, in Abu Dhabi, which was beachfront very few high rises. Now, when you come here it's a complete different experience. What I think we can recognize is that if we
Anthony Scaramucci: (19:43)
Not to interrupt you, but I would say in the last 15 years, it's been an unbelievable explosion of that sort of urbanization and activity. So exponential growth..
Nabyl Al Maskari: (19:53)
There are islands that are being developed today that we would never go to when we were younger. In many cases, and I feel that there are so few [emirati 00:20:03] , and obviously I represent an [emirati 00:20:04] family that when we traveled around the world, I'd almost give them the euphemism that you're all ambassadors of your country. What I hope. And it's the vision, not only for our family, because we're people, but we're from a populace that is looking and seeking peace. So I would just touch on and say 15 years from now the greatest aspiration. And I think the reflection of what the leadership's vision would be is one of a sustainable and prosperous Abu Dhabi and UAE that is the beacon to make sure that regional conflicts are deescalating. We're looking for greater opportunities of integration, cooperation, and fundamentally that'll be built around these Peace accords.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (20:44)
Obviously the Abraham Accord is something that happened very recently, last week in the United States, but that has been a building momentum towards tolerance. So I look at this and say 15 years from now, I hope that the region and in certainly our country is recognized for its leadership in areas that are around governance and around respect towards peoples. And we can do that as a private journey. I think the governments have to lead and they have to show us by example, but we have an obligation to also engage in that dialogue and actually take the acts ourselves cause policies, absent participation of the people they're just non they're non-functional right.
Anthony Scaramucci: (21:24)
I agree. One of the things I would add, which is one of the real strengths of the UAE is the legal system and the legal precedents and the foundation of creating that certainty, frankly for foreigners, that legal system is rock solid. There's no capricious activity in that legal system. And that's usually the hallmark of great commercial success for a country. So, there's so many things I'm impressed with before I turn it over to Rachel, where we have a ton of audience questions. I want to ask you one last question about the Belt and Road Initiative. What are your thoughts there and how do you think that's going to affect MEASA?
Nabyl Al Maskari: (22:08)
So look, ultimately, I look at the initiative is one in which you have to play kind of by derivatives. It's not an opportunity to directly invest into the strategy. It's one largely geopolitical. I think that that connectivity is a historical bond between these regions and, and whether you call it, the silk road, whether you call it MEASA, I think ultimately we have very different perspectives and it's very ethnocentric and how we choose to have the nomenclature and identify, but ultimately it's around the fact that there is a natural flow by way of both resource centers and consumption that there's opportunities to create wealth. And that's been there since the time of [inaudible 00:22:47] , at the times of Marco Polo. It doesn't matter. We all have our explorers that have sort of gone and forged ahead for us, I think is going to be by capital flow.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (22:56)
It's not going to be by discovering those new frontiers in geography. Let me just say one quick thing before we turned some other points. Because it's something that was on my mind and I wanted to kind of raise with you. You know, we talked a lot about the role of women and we talked a lot about how things are changing and then the political discourse here. I would be remissed if I didn't have an opportunity, you know that I studied the United States just to extend my condolences to the United States around the loss of Justice Ginsburg, an amazing icon. When you're a student of history, irrespective of politics, I think that you could recognize the role that she played. And she, I hope as history will show is an inspiration point for many. So just wanted to extend those condolences to obviously your side as well.
Anthony Scaramucci: (23:43)
Well, it's very sweet of to do that. And one of my most brilliant memories, frankly, is you, me, my son AJ and your mom talking about the love affair that you guys have with the United States and our new love affair with the UAE. So I do appreciate that also it goes without saying, but I am going to mention it. We've had over 200,000 deaths in the country. And so at some point we're going to have to figure that out as well, which obviously gives us both great sadness, but I want to switch to something optimistic and joyful. We've got Rachel, our new host of the SALT talk look at her. She just karate chopped John Dorsey and the Adam's apple Nabyl. So, you know, I obviously enjoyed that. So Rachel, I'm turning it over to you and the questions we have from the audience,
Rachel Pether: (24:36)
Thanks so much, Anthony, for stirring up that competitive spirit and also to Nabyl for that great discussion. One thing that we're seeing a lot of in the institutional investor community, and this was touched on by Russell last week as well, is innovation partnerships, whether that's at a co-investment level or in joint ventures. And I think when we're looking at the MEASA region, one concern that institutional investors sometimes have with a justified or otherwise issues around transparency. So could you talk a bit more about your partnership approach and how that might resolve some of these issues or perceptions
Nabyl Al Maskari: (25:16)
Fair point and I think it's the right way to ask the question because transparency, which sort of is the governance [quotion 00:25:24] has always been this point of reticence in terms of engaging to the region, because whether it be just purely opaque and you didn't understand what was going on, or whether you believe that you had an obscured view. I think that had always been one of the constraints around capital. As a private family we've had the privilege to partner both with government. So we've worked directly with Temasek Company portfolios in generations past, we partnered with US listed companies and can continue to do so.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (25:50)
So I have a little bit of sense of the spectrum of how one needs to position themselves to be able to kind of partner. And ultimately, I think this goes to the idea that we will continue to see a constraint around the performance of our companies if we don't adopt the proper principles of transparency and governance, both at the board and at that executive level. so I think irrespective capital will flow to those most deserving of it. I think what we need to do in the peer group. Working with institution investors and others is create the opportunity to showcase those success stories because unfortunately many of them have not evolved significantly to the maturity curve to be in a public market opportunity.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (26:34)
Most of them are earlier phase. And when you talk about the opening around technology and integration, I think that's really the touch point of sort of that tangency. You get to come into the market. Typically these are high growth. They are not homogeneous. It's, it's a very difficult region. MEASA over 90 countries is how we define it. But ultimately there is some consistency around the approach and that requires localization. Ultimately the only way one can be successful across such a diverse geography is to be able to have a strong ground game. And I know this is the same, whether you're a US investor and you're talking about, New England or sort of the Southwest, it also requires a very localized approach. And I think that's where we will have to look at manager selection. We will have to look at engaging with the right forums to be able to bring those leaders to the forefront and get them the right support.
Rachel Pether: (27:27)
So we've actually had some audience questions come in related to two separate points that you just spoke about the capsule piece and the technology piece, someone asked, what can investors from other countries bring to help the UAE and the Al Maskari family achieve their goals. Money is less of the issue, but what about other strategic purposes? So there's specific things that you're looking at and the country
Nabyl Al Maskari: (27:53)
Look as I said at the outset, we take our scripts from where we think the government has need. We very much look to the public sector, whether it be from an off-take perspective or a support perspective. And I think the signaling is clear there when you're having a fast growing economy, but one in a COVID environment, what you begin to realize is that in generations past you became probably overly reliant on international supply. So today domestic production, whether it be in food or other sort of key verticals is almost a strategic imperative. It's not something that you look at from a standpoint of sort of protectionism, this isn't the sort of policy effect around creating sort of protected jobs. This is an idea around saying, how can we ensure that we're able to support our region's growth and do it from within the region?
Nabyl Al Maskari: (28:46)
So thematically, clearly food security, which goes across agri into water. You have to look at some sort of light manufacturing, because as I say, we are in a very actual, low energy cost environment. We're able to produce at scale, whether you see this in our steel or aluminum industries. So there will be ways that we can become a net exporter of certain ones in which we have sort of, again, I like the new [inaudible 00:29:10] term of geo arbitrage, right? But we have some endowments that we should be leveraging to our advantage. And I think that when we, as a family look at that, we try to figure out where can we both support the economy and be the right sort of access point for those who want to come in, I would just draw attention, happy to get Anthony to weigh back in on this. I think one of the concerns we have when we're as a family, looking at this, I remember being a student in the United States when the first sort of [CFIUS 00:29:40] ruling came around DPW.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (29:42)
Remember back in 06, we were sort of looking at the port acquisition and I was coming out of business school prior to being a management consultant. And this was literally like the perfect case point of saying, how do you look at foreign direct investment, technology, and protectionism. In terms of how that policy went forward. There were a lot of learnings from that, but I think we as a global community now, when we look at the evolution of [CFIUS 00:30:08] and now the new [FIRRMA 00:30:09] , which most people didn't even see that legislation come into effect in 2018 under the current administration. And now seeing the implications around China and technology into the United States, that's clearly where we as investors in technology partners need to realize that you have almost a geopolitical viewpoint on your partnerships.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (30:28)
It's, it's almost economic diplomacy that's happening. And if you don't recognize that, and if you don't calibrate for it, I think you're on the downside of [inaudible 00:30:37] return. And I think you have a lot more risk that you're not actually calibrating in.
Anthony Scaramucci: (30:41)
So, I mean, just 30 seconds, I would say that there's a trade isolationism, which is somewhat similar to the isolationist view in the late 20's and the early 30's for the United States with Franklin Roosevelt gave a very famous speech about and caution people on moreover, we remember Roosevelt for many things, but the relationship that he built with Ibn Saud, the founder of Saudi Arabia really cemented the US Alliance if you will, with Saudi Arabia and eventually the UAE. And so I just cautioned my fellow Americans to recognize that America first may feel like America alone. It may not be in the best long-term interest of the United States.
Anthony Scaramucci: (31:30)
Sometimes we clutch to our tribalism and our nativism. Where the natural forces we're better off combining and conjoining because of what David Ricardo said. And I'll just remind everybody, David Ricardo said that no nation can get what they want or need in terms of goods and services at the lowest cost without trading with other nations. So it's just a cautionary reminder of where I think we all need to go in terms of reducing our tribal feelings and reducing our perceived differences and recognizing that we have way more in common. And so anyway, I'm off my soap box and I'll turn it back to Rachel, but I definitely love what you're saying Nabyl. And I think we all have to go that way directionally.
Rachel Pether: (32:21)
Yeah, no, those are really interesting points. And from the Sovereign wealth fund perspective, as Nabyl mentioned, when the DP world sort of investment broke down, it was then when the Sovereign wealth funds came in after the financial crisis, they were sort of seen as the White Knights. And that's when we started to see a bit of a shift from the institutional investor community then, just a couple more questions from me Nabyl. How has Al Maskari Holdings been affected by COVID? And have you seen it creating any shifts in the UAE economy more broadly?
Nabyl Al Maskari: (32:55)
So I'll answer on two, I mean certainly for our portfolio, we're fortunate that we have a strong bias towards ICT. I think we pivoted to that in the last 18 to 24 months and extended, we have a lot of multinationals that provide those ITC services, but these are large listed companies that are actually supporting the TELCO's are doing digital transformation. So from that standpoint, I think we were well poised as a family to provide those services, as you looked at remote working, and obviously the ability for us as a country to be able to create the right safe environment, to continue to kind of engage. And I think that's, what's important. Economies can not shut down. They need to adapt, evolve, and ultimately I think they can become more efficient as a throughput of the exercise. So from an ICT perspective, we've done and we're [foreign language 00:33:43] , we're blessed to have those companies in our portfolio.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (33:46)
I think that the UAE, because we had done so much work towards digital government. Now you're seeing policy evolutions around ones only, which are kind of, again, these are ideas where they're adopted in Europe. If you give the documents, let's say one time to a European government, they can't ask a second time. So it requires a work-share within it. So you're seeing a lot of these efficiency gains that will come from this digital transformation. I think the interesting point and the opportunity for us all is that when you look at the potential role redundancies, that occur because of either shift towards shared services or towards this outsourcing model, as you become more lean and you digitize operations, I think that's where there's a real opportunity for a family like ours structured around empowerment, Emiratisation to come in and say, how do we make sure that the individuals are retrained, repurposed, and ultimately redeployed into meaningful roles?
Nabyl Al Maskari: (34:41)
Those that can't, either not suited or skilled, that's where the government has announced a lot of policies to find ways to invest into their people. And that's ultimately a question that goes back to when you ask "what can you describe about the UAE? Who is the UAE? What is it?" It's a country that's really focused on the citizens and the residents, not just one exclusively to the other. So they're trying to find the right balance of a stable economy. You see that now with announcements where in the past the government would have maybe direct companies engaging in services, they become a little bit more reluctant to perform those where they're letting competition now actually occur organically. So I think that you need to recognize that the landscape is a quick moving one it's dynamic, but it will ultimately require us to kind of look to our international partners that have gone through these exercises in much larger economies and actually bring those best practices here to the UAE and to the region.
Rachel Pether: (35:40)
Fabulous. Thanks so much Nabyl. And we've just got time for one more question, and you have answered quite a lot of difficult questions today. So I'm going to give you a nice, easy one. That's coming from Sebastian. He's asked, how can we learn more about the UAE and its history? Is there a book or some films that you could recommend?
Nabyl Al Maskari: (35:59)
So films they're just beginning, there's a fantastic documentary.
Anthony Scaramucci: (36:05)
Don't say Sex and the City, Nabyl, [crosstalk 00:36:06] Sex and the City.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (36:10)
I was going to say, I had, again with disclosure to my wife was the CEO of Dubai Media. So, I've heard the stories from the [Cannes 00:36:19] perspective, right. And the kind of, I'm going to try to norm that a bit. Look, I think many people first experienced the UAE again, as we talked about earlier, probably from Dubai, because a lot of the film industries have come in and we've attracted that, you've seen our landscape. You probably don't recognize it. So from franchise films, you've probably seen the backdrops, but that's really, to me, one aspect it's of a multifaceted and really multicultural experience. There are a lot of books about it.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (36:50)
I'm happy to kind of offline after this, we'll provide back to the team at SALT, a list of recommended readings. But as I was saying, when we got a bit distracted, there was a great documentary that was shot a little while ago, actually. And National Geographic had put it out that shows some of the history of the UAE and the evolution from an Archeological perspective. So I highly recommend it's shot in the highest definition. You can imagine it takes you across the region, but most importantly, let me end with this. It's an open invitation when COVID subsides to have those that are watching on behalf of the country, even though I'm a private and I don't have the role to play in the government, what I can say from all of us who live here, we welcome you to come experience our country firsthand either before, or certainly during the Expo.
Nabyl Al Maskari: (37:40)
I know we couldn't hold it this year because of COVID. We intend to hold it next year, but there's no better way to just sort of look at the Expo, which will be held in Dubai as an opportunity to really engage, learn, and hopefully come to love our country. Because those that leave from here, oftentimes we're always talking about when they want to come back. And I know Anthony is chief among those. So we hope to see you soon back here and we'll welcome you. I know my mother is sort of inquiring. So we're looking forward to not only meet with the SkyBridge team as well.
Anthony Scaramucci: (38:09)
We're very excited about the future relationship with your family. You personally, the country. And I have to tell you that our reception at SALT in December, I thought was really magnificent. I mean, and there's so much to do. And frankly, one of the things I'm very proud of on behalf of SkyBridge Nabyl, is bringing more Americans to the region, that have less familiarity with the region to see all the amazing possibilities they. So thank you so much for joining us on SALT Talks, Rachel, you did an amazing job, but I'm getting mean texts like from the movie mean girls from John Dorsey that I have to stop being so complimentary of you, but you did a great job. And Nabyl, I want to see you soon. So we're looking forward to it.