“I'm a believer of when I invest in something like private equity or VC, it has to be sustainable for the very long-term.”
Mr. Stergios Voskopoulos is the CEO of Kanoo Capital, the Investment Division within YBA Kanoo, one of the largest and oldest family conglomerates in the Middle East. As CEO of Kanoo Capital, Mr. Voskopoulos is responsible for the active management of direct and indirect investments regionally and globally.
Kanoo as an institution was incorporated all the way back in 1890 and after many decades of an oil-based economy in the region, YBA Kanoo leveraged its longstanding credentials in countries like Bahrain, Saudi and UAE to establish a wide-ranging professional investment practice. This shift to more diverse investing has created a regional entrepreneurial ecosystem designed to sustain into the 21st century and beyond. “I'm a believer of impact investing when you have the balance between impact and also economic and financial returns.”
Developing the local workforce is a key element in the mission to remake and support the regional economy. This means a strong focus on improving local universities so that fewer families feel the need to send their children to the United States or Europe for a top education.
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SPEAKER
Stergios Voskopoulos
Chief Executive Officer
Kanoo Capital
MODERATOR
Anthony Scaramucci
Founder & Managing Partner
SkyBridge
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Rachel Pether: (00:07)
Hi everyone and welcome back to SALT Talks. My name is Rachel Pether and I'm a senior advisor to SkyBridge Capital based in Abu Dhabi, as well as being the MC basalt, a thought leadership form and networking platform that encompasses business technology and politics. SALT Talks as many of you know is a series of digital interviews, where we aim to provide our audience a window into the mind of subject matter experts.
Rachel Pether: (00:35)
Today's focus is going to be on family businesses and international investing and I'm very excited to be speaking to a dear friend of mine Stergios Voskopoulos. Stergios is the CEO of Kanoo Capital, the investment division of YBA Kanoo, one of the oldest and largest family conglomerates here in the Middle East. I know that the term global citizen can be somewhat overused, but Stergios truly is a global citizen.
Rachel Pether: (01:01)
He has lived and worked in seven countries including spending the last 10 years in the Middle East and he speaks six languages. He has over 20 years of experience in asset management, private equity and MNA. He's a member of the young president's organization. He holds an MBA in a bachelor of science in computer engineering. As always, if you have any questions for Stergios during today's talk, just answer them in the QA section of your screen. Stergios, welcome to SALT Talks.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (01:39)
Hi, Rachel. I'm glad to be here and hi to all the viewers of SALT Talks.
Rachel Pether: (01:40)
We're very excited to have you here. And before we dive into specifics, I want you to tell me a bit about your personal background. Living and working in seven countries is quite a lot, especially for a man from a small town in Western Greece.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (01:55)
Sure, yes. I would love to share a little bit more about where we all start from like myself. So I was born in a small town in western in Greece called Agrinio. I was the son of two amazing parents who were both entrepreneurs. My father was in the family and business and they used to own movie theaters and my mother was also an entrepreneur. We were two brothers. So we grew up in this small town and then as we usually do in Greece, we moved to one of the big cities to study. So I moved to Athens to do my bachelor's as you mentioned in computer science back in the '90s and computer science then it was in the very beginning. So we had to work on courses from logical design to algorithmics, to networks, to the whole spectrum of computer science.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (02:54)
So that was very exciting and actually one of my first job, my first job was in IT and software development. Before weeks though, I had to serve the military. So I served the Greek Navy for almost two years and then I did my first, that 10 year old in a professional career while being a software developer. I was a manager, but I always wanted to do something in finance and to apply all this analytical thinking and algorithmic theories, also in the financial theory. And that's when I moved to New York to do my MBA in finance and then I moved to the Athen's management arena almost 20 years ago, as you mentioned. So first I was working for a financial software company, focusing on fixed income structure products from analyzing and providing all the analytics for structured products back in the 2000, it was in the very beginning from models back security, CMOs, CDOs, IBS et cetera.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (03:55)
And then I moved to one of our major clients AIG global investment group in Wall Street. Where I was a senior quantitative analyst for the one of the largest portfolios in structured products back then. And back in 2004, I moved to London, then I worked for Barclays for one year, but I was open for new adventures and move to new places. So I was looking back then to move to Asia or the Middle East. It goes to say 2005, and it was a great timing to move to an emerging markets. So that brought me to Bahrain where I'm still today in 2005 to work for Investcorp and one of the largest alternative investment firms in the world whose offices in Bahrain, in London and New York, where I worked for almost four years, then I was with another private equity fund until 2011.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (04:48)
Then I moved to Beijing in China. I moved to a more entrepreneurial period which was one of the most exciting periods I have to say in my life because, I was venturing. So I was between Asia was one of the most exciting places to be back in 2011 after the global financial crisis. And I was between Beijing, Dubai and Hong Kong for almost five years and spending lots of time in the plane. And something wanted to bring me back to be closer to my roots maybe and for me Bahrain then was always like home. I have many good friends, very good experience here. And that's that's when we discussed and we decided with the Kanoo family to set up properly under a good structure, the family investment division. And that's when I came back in 2016 and we set up what we call it today, Kanoo Capital.
Rachel Pether: (05:44)
There's so many pieces about your background that I want to go into further detail on, like the entrepreneurship, your background in technology and also this global experience, but maybe first we could discuss more about the Kanoo family. We had Mishal Kanoo the chairman on a few weeks ago and he spoke really passionately about how he felt really lucky that each generation sort of saw the next generation as a new business and very iniative. And so I'd like you to tell me about the Kanoo family and how your mandate and action setting up Kanoo Capital. And then we can maybe talk a bit deeper about the governance and institutionalization of it.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (06:32)
Sure. As many people love from the region know Kanoo it's an institution. So YBA Kanoo, which is the firm that I'm still employed by was incorporated back in 1890. So it has been operating for about 130 years. So the families from the first generation were very entrepreneurial. I think that as the region has been evolving, the same way also the Kanoo family has been growing across different verticals from trading in the beginning, from shipping, logistics to oil and gas. Oil was discovered in Bahrain, the first onshore oil in 1932 and then in 1939 in a Jbail. So the family members moved to Saudi and also when UAE, Abu Dhabi was growing back in the '70s, some other family members moved to a UAE. And for example, Mishal is one of ... The family of Mishal moved to UAE from the very beginning.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (07:38)
So you have now YBA Kanoo being present in three countries, Bahrain, Saudi and UAE. So that allowed the group to attract many international firms to express their interest to cooperate and also do other businesses in travel. Like one of the largest travel agencies and also set up mandatory ventures with firms like AXA Insuarance, like Halliburton, AkzoNobel, APM terminals, et cetera. So over the past decades, YBA Kanoo has been very well established. Corporate governance is there many family members are involved, but always aligned with a senior management team. And back in 2016, there was a vision of also setting up a more unified investment practice with a very senior professionals, experience professionals like myself and my team. So when we came on board, we set up from Bahrain, one team, one division to manage all the investments in the region and also globally.
Rachel Pether: (08:44)
And so having looked at the family group and the organizational structure there, how did you set up the governance within Kanoo Capital itself?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (08:54)
Well, there is one entity, right? One holdings group and there are many divisions and in each division, there are different family members who are more involved than others and then you have the board. So there is very clear governance of each of the divisions and how this comes under one group which is the holdings group that reports to onboard. So this way, there's one common vision there's as we call it one Kanoo and a governance is very key. We for any there is always a delegation of authority where there is always consensus, there are different voices, different opinions, debate in order to always come with the optimal decision-making.
Rachel Pether: (09:38)
So maybe we can talk a bit more about what that optimal decision-making looks like at Kanoo Capital, you're responsible for international investments across different asset classes. How do you see the world when you look at the investment landscape?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (09:53)
Well, we were very regional first, so we are very active in the region more directly. When it comes to global investments we don't do it alone, we don't do directly. We do it more with aligned with other firm managers. We have our own asset allocation would pick the asset classes that we understand and that we believed from a tactical asset allocation perspective. And then it's all about selection, selection of firm managers, selection of co-investments and selection also of securities.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (10:27)
So there is a balance which I would say that even today, it's more skewed to the region when it comes to direct investments and more active management. But, since we set up Kanoo Capital, we have been investing also globally and we always want to do things that we understand. We don't want to venture and take large risks in areas that it's not us, we don't understand, but still it sounded out overall diversification strategy and as per location.
Rachel Pether: (10:59)
And you also mentioned earlier about your background and entrepreneurialism within your personal family and studying technology as well at university, before it was even a very popular thing to study. Does this make you personally, I guess, more comfortable investing in startups and the venture capsulate ecosystem?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (11:22)
I will say yes. Investing in startups and venture capital is more about assessing people, who are the founders. Then it's about understanding the product or the service, whatever is sold to the market and to also have a clear path to go to market. But having done things on my own, I was not ... Coming from an entrepreneurial family, having seen how my parents grew their business and then how I set up businesses and or following other founders you get experience.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (11:56)
So then, when you meet a young team of entrepreneurs, it's very important first of all, to click with them. To understand what's the passion are they're there for the longterm or they are there for the quick flipping of adventure, so that's how we start. To me there are three components, people, product, go to market when it comes to startups. And technology now, nowadays is an enabler of setting up a very profitable businesses, much faster.
Rachel Pether: (12:31)
Yeah, definitely. And that echoes something that Mishal spoke about as well. He talked about the key is to look for businesses that are going to scale and how can you help be part of that scale up that's going to happen. And I know that one area that's also of interest to you is this innovation impact, investing in innovation area. How does that piece look like in terms, in practice for you? And maybe you could talk through some examples of investments that you've done.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (13:04)
I have been always talking about sustainable investments, not for the sake of ESG or investing in impactful areas. To me, I'm a believer of when I invest in something like private equity or VC, it has to be sustainable for the very long-term. So it's not about investing sustainable businesses, but something that will be sustainable for the long-term. I will not go to university in a climate polluting business. Why? Because today I might be making money, but in five years I might not. So what are your lessons coming, et cetera. I'm a believer of impact investing when you have the balance between impact. So also economic and also financial returns, because if something does not, I mean, charity is a different thing, right? We're not talking about charity here. We're talking about impactful investments that generate sustainable returns. So I'm a big believer of that area.
Rachel Pether: (14:06)
And have there been specific, I know you work across different asset classes are. There's some examples of private equity deals that you've made that's Raymond?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (14:19)
We have been involved when I was also in China in waste energy. And I saw that you have the waste that is not used, but you can also turn to regenerate energy. What better than bringing a technology that can convert waste to energy. I'm just using this as an example, right? Waste management energy efficiency, I'm talking about sustainability. And then when it comes to digital transformation, apply technology to existing business models, renovate them. You don't need to reinvent the business model itself. It's just about optimize the business model by though using technology, not replacing people. We need to look at also in the reason, right? It's not this anarchy of, If I bring technology, it's going to replace people and automation it's going to replace people. No, it's about re-skilling people.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (15:12)
So that's where education to me becomes critical. And not only elementary schooling or high schools, it's about universities, especially now with COVID. You see that fewer families who might send the kids to the US or to Europe to study and not setting up more universities here? And that's another area that we're looking at, right? From a [inaudible 00:15:33] perspective, like bringing North out here and even medical universities, it could be something.
Rachel Pether: (15:40)
No, that's really interesting. And actually I did want to dive a bit deeper on to if the pandemic had altered or changed your investment strategy. So is there something that you were looking at pre pandemic as well, or was it something that's really come to the for in the last six months or so?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (16:00)
Sure. An example, sustainability. Now we were looking at sustainability even from before, because waste to energy does not need only COVID right. To be proven and accepted, but education setting up universities for some reason, like even medical universities. I think now it's even more imperative because healthcare becomes critical also setting up universities here where the families can send the kids. It can be also subsidized from the government.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (16:33)
Training is key. We find that also in Saudi Arabia that in different areas, we need to have local workforce to respond to this needs. But also I would say that food security became, as we know, right? Critical after COVID. So we're looking at this area as well, as you know in UAE, there are many new setups like facilities that are for using all that. But Bahrain, Saudi even Kuwait, we have seen that they're looking at this space.
Rachel Pether: (17:12)
Yeah. We've actually had some audience questions coming asking for more details on the investment strategy and I'm going to ask them, I actually wish that I had asked this myself. Ken has said that you have a really interesting background and he's wondering, what is your principal goal for Kanoo Capital's investments? For example, is it to invest in areas very strategic or forward-looking to the parent company's focus or say diversify the sources of income for the parent company.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (17:44)
It's a mix, it's both. We need all families around the world have made money, but by focusing. So you have to keep being entrepreneurial, but also under high conviction approach. So you need first on the one end to know what you're doing. So that's strategically what we're focusing on the one side, but on the other side also we need to diversify for the rainy day, like COVID, right? Something happened, let's say oil, we all get scared in April, that oil will remain at the level of stock 10, so single digits or between 10 and 20. So that would have a huge impact to the region. So you have to diversify also by geography and by sector. So we're looking at the balance between the two, but always doing things that we understand well.
Rachel Pether: (18:33)
You talk about a rainy day, this COVID rainy day has lasted six months already, so much longer than one day. We've actually had-
Stergios Voskopoulos: (18:43)
You haven't seen the impact yet.
Rachel Pether: (18:48)
That's true. That's very true. We've had a question actually coming and specifically related to what you've just been saying about diversification and how do you divide diversifying with annual energy holdings. And do you have any specific views on oil off short service vehicles space and consolidation opportunities there, and I'm not sure if the second part of that question is too specific.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (19:17)
So oil we will remain. Oil and gas will be there for the very long term and what we see from our clients in the region is that they are trying to become more efficient. So what we want to do as a group is to provide all the services to make them more efficient. So that's one area, but the underlying sector as oil and gas, it's there to remain, right? The largest company in the world is right next to Bahrain at [inaudible 00:19:46]. So it's about how they become more profitable, how they look at the bottom line, the top line is there, but also how to optimize their bottom line from a cost perspective and from an efficiency perspective. So that's what we're doing as a group. We're not producing oil ourselves, but we are helping all producers petrochemicals internal.
Rachel Pether: (20:11)
That's great. Thanks Stergios. I also do want to sort of leverage the fact that you have this international experience and maybe talk a bit about some of the differences that you've seen within the family office businesses in Asia and also in the Middle East. Could you maybe talk through some of the key differences as you've seen in terms of approach between the two regions?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (20:36)
Sure. I think that this region here in terms of families and evolution, right? Intergenerational evolution is a bit more advanced than Asia, especially China, because China is a recently emerged economy, until the '70s it was still a poor country. So what I have seen being in China and Hong Kong is that still the families are in the 10 to 10, three second or third generation marks and there are not too many members. So for them it's even more imperative to structure themselves properly and to institutionalize, otherwise they will be an issue on the preservation of the wealth and the succession.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (21:27)
So here in the Middle East there the families that I know and the one that I worked for are more advanced. So it's the wealth has been created from thirties, forties, and many families are a bit more advanced in terms of access, in terms of ability to manage their operations, existing operations here, but also do access investments globally. And I have seen many entrepreneurial families in the region being present in crazy places from Latin America to Asia, Malaysia of course, right? There is a strong link Africa. So I think compared to Asia we are a bit more advanced or ahead, but there are many similarities always right when it comes to family wealth and preservation and succession.
Rachel Pether: (22:18)
Yeah, definitely. And when you look at investing, have you done much co-invest or many co-investments with other family offices? Is this an area that you're looking to do.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (22:30)
We've done in the region and we're looking globally to now. Yes. So that sounds-
Rachel Pether: (22:38)
And for areas that you're looking at and obviously the Kanoo group as a ... It's one of the whole marks in terms of family businesses in the region. And it's, I think ninth generation and it's very progressive in terms of investing, but when you're looking at an area which may be the family, isn't so comfortable with, how do you get the buy-in from the family? What does that look like?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (23:07)
We need to convince the first ourselves and then to convince through our governments, right? Our investment committees and the family has the same. So that's why we need to develop. What we might have to do is we develop a clear framework with investment criteria. So when we going from two of the principles, we know what we're presenting and there is an understanding. Otherwise, we defeat the purpose of alignment and understanding.
Rachel Pether: (23:38)
Yes, absolutely. And when you speak about the Middle Eastern versus the Asian families, I guess there's also some cultural similarities between the two regions and one topic that keeps coming up and the sell talks is this fear of failure. And I like to tie that into your views and what you're seeing in the ecosystem as to, A is that still a valid concern and B how does that play out in the entrepreneurship space?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (24:11)
Yeah, you're right. So there are many similarities and many families I've seen that they pursue a framework of being very objective than being subjective within the family. So there are family members who have different preferences, they have different interests, they have different level of involvement, understandings. The ones who are leading the family that ... That's why governance matters and also meritocracy being placed to settle this criteria and the framework where both family and management can work together in order to utilize the best skills from the family members and the professional skills.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (24:59)
And some fail. I have seen many, especially when you have only a few members in the family, the probability of failure is higher, right? So if there is on the second generation, if you have only two family members who can succeed the founder, then there is higher risk. So if you pass the third generation, I think it's nice, more structured and more robust. And there is a frame or a clear path, on how to have the family members involved and the best ones.
Rachel Pether: (25:39)
Yeah. And Mishal also spoke about the importance of supporting the regional ecosystem, not just financially, but also also with ideas and expertise and guidance, as well as supporting the regional ecosystem. Something that you're focused on at Kanoo Capital and maybe start with Bahrain since that's your home to.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (26:05)
Yeah. I think my Bahrain is a lovely place. So there is so much potential and a great infrastructure and lovely of people that can attract new businesses here. So that's what we're trying to do also as a private group. Bring new companies startups, ideas, entrepreneurs and develop a new ecosystem like Dubai has done, Abu Dhabi is doing as well. So I think the framework is there, the central bank is supporting, economic development board is supporting. You have all these frameworks to attract a new business and that's what as a private group, I'm looking at. How to support our country here and how to help all the ecosystem expand and grow.
Rachel Pether: (26:52)
And do you also look at that, I guess, bringing technology into Bahrain and building out the ecosystem, but are you also exporting and we actually have a question coming in specifically related to if you're investing in China and doing some tech transfer and partnerships between China and Bahrain?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (27:14)
Yes. I found that in the past 10 to 20 years, there are setups in the region that can export. So also from an events perspective, we have seen companies that are set up in UAE or in Saudi, or if, I think in Bahrain for example, the best digital bank in the region is based in Bahrain next to us, it's Isla bank. So there is no how that can be cultivated through the countries here. And it can be also exported not to Europe or to US, I would say. For some businesses, maybe you can do that too, but the adjacent countries, the sub-continent, Africa we were talking about the radius or 4 billion, three to 4 billion population around the region. And so I believe that there is lots of opportunity for setting up companies now, especially with technological to support in the region and export also outside before this was not happening. Only oil was exported and gas and the better chemicals.
Rachel Pether: (28:25)
Yes. It's definitely, evolved from a very one dimensional export market. That's for sure. We've had so many questions, audience questions coming in. So I'm going to try and sort of structure them into groups with regards to the governance side and also the investing side. So I'll start with one of the most sort of government's educational piece. Ken's asked, how has the educational background and focus of the latest generation of Kanoo Capital professionals influencing the focus of the board?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (28:59)
Yeah, that's a very good question. I think Mishal also had the tats on dats, right? As a family member and principle where all family members have to study and then have to go out and work on their own. They come in the group and just find an area that is of their interest and of their educational background and go through and find the right spot. So governance allows for that. That's the answer.
Rachel Pether: (29:29)
That's great. And someone has actually said that you mentioned that governance matters within Kanoo and the last specifically to pick up on that on the G of ESG. And I know that you were saying that you're looking more broadly at investing in companies that have a positive impact. But is it that you wait any part of the E or the S or the G more strongly when you're looking at investing and Lindsey has asked specifically if you focus on the G part of that equation?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (30:00)
No, I think ENS are also critical, right? So when we do a due diligence on a company, we need to make sure that they are environmentally there. They're not going to cause any because that will create, especially now reputation damage and also will not be sustainable as a business model. People that might not buy and so obviously many other counterparties are looking also for many years, you perspective how they're dealing with their providers of service or product. So both E and S are key. To us, it comes to due diligence. So we would rate the ESG component as well when we evaluate the company.
Rachel Pether: (30:42)
Yeah. And if you're looking forward, sort of to the next 12 or 24 months, I know you've spoken a bit about some of the investments that you've you've made thus far, but what are the key themes for you going forward over the next one to two years?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (30:59)
I still want it to be cautious. We haven't seen what's the real impact from this unprecedented crisis. It's a healthcare crisis and we still don't know when we're going to get out of it. Still people cannot travel and still, we have countries under lock down Europe in USA. The rates are super high, so vaccine is good. The developments around the vaccine, there are nine fives that are very positive, but still wanting to see how this will be distributed around the world. To me, it's not a matter of efficacy only, but it's a matter of distribution and effectiveness.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (31:37)
So according to that, we're still cautious, but for them into long-term, we're looking at, as I said, some areas that are hiking exceptation for us. So we are into also travel and hospitality. Travel will not cease to exist, it will be there. So we might find some great opportunities again, to invest in travel or utilize technology, to come and to apply to our existing travel business. The same comes to hospitality, which are two of the most impacted sectors right now. So we are cautious on the one end, but also opportunistic on the other end. And we are taking it month by month, but in the term we know what we want to get in terms of areas to invest.
Rachel Pether: (32:28)
Yeah. There's certainly some great distressed opportunities out there for those people that are willing to be a little bit more opportunistic.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (32:36)
Yeah. Despaired or dislocated. So there are market dislocations are rising every day as we go, because a COVID was really strong and it will remain in the history as a major crisis or a major transition to a new era.
Rachel Pether: (33:01)
Yes, definitely. And I think if anyone said that they saw it coming, I think they were lying. So it's definitely changed the way we both live and invest. And just a specific question further on the investment side, a lot of Middle Eastern groups and families have a sort of a real estate bias. It's something they're very comfortable with. Are you doing many investments on the real estate side, or it's really about diversification?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (33:32)
Well, real estate is one of the lots of sectors in the world. So it will never, it will always be there and it can always be optimized. We are looking at prop tech, like real estate technologies that we can also apply to existing asset base. But I do believe that real estate, whenever cease to exist again, it's a key sector. Of course we have to be cautious in the region we overbuilt and all we should do is actually to feel this real estate space and sustain the sector.
Rachel Pether: (34:08)
I think we must have a few real estate investment professionals on the call. Because I'm getting a lot more follow-up questions on this, but people have also asked, is there a specific sector you did mention prop tech, are there other sectors within real estate that you're looking at? Like, is it on the residential side, commercial side, logistics?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (34:31)
It's more on the commercial side, which is closer to our DNA. So we are into logistics. So we see lots of opportunity through the logistics space from a warehousing perspective and the value chain. So that's an area that we're looking. [inaudible 00:34:47] as well. As always.
Rachel Pether: (34:49)
Excellent. We have sort of less than 10 minutes left and I'd also like to talk a bit more and really leverage this international expertise that you've had, but maybe you could talk about some of the lessons that you've brought from your international experience in Asia and Europe and how you've applied that to what you're doing in the Middle East now.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (35:17)
Yeah. It's very important, sometimes when you invest in a country, doesn't matter what asset class to gain an understanding of demographics culture, underlying norms, right? Even if I want to invest in China, I know how the Chinese think because I live there. If I want to invest in Chinese stock, I understand how the retail investors are behaving in sainy. So these are all, going around the world when you want to be a global investor, it helps for sure. And sometimes not always in a good way, but also in the bad way. What I'm saying is that working and experiencing around the world, you learn things and you learn how to avoid pitfalls for investing and how to focus on what you believe that will actually generate the returns you are expecting.
Rachel Pether: (36:13)
So for someone that has internationally traveled as you, how have you found not being able to struggle for the last nine months or so?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (36:21)
No, actually that's one of the most productive periods of my life. Do you know what I realized that actually we were wasting someone's time by traveling all over and it was always an expectation from the other end too. I find now that the expectation from the other party to meet with you is not there anymore. So that makes me believe that travel will never come back to where it was. We would travel less, even if, let's say COVID disappears because now we found new ways of communicating and all this it's a matter of expectation from the other party. I don't need to come to Dubai to meet someone I can get on Zoom and have this discussion, like I've had over the past nine months. So I miss traveling, but I think if I go back to traveling, it will not be like before.
Rachel Pether: (37:12)
Yeah. I think the days of going to, flying into regional travel for one meeting are well behind us. Someone has asked what you're doing with all your free time now?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (37:25)
Working out, working on a new project. So there are some also live projects that I'm working on. Like, I mentioned movies. We're working on a documentary about movie theaters because I grew up in movie theaters. So, some areas that are more passionate for me and just also spending more time with good friends, that before we didn't use to. Now you have time for spending it in more privately and nicely.
Rachel Pether: (37:58)
Yeah. That's definitely a very good use of time for sure. We have a lot more audience questions, so I'm just trying to address a few more before we ask a couple of easier closing questions. Mustapha has asked at same set, the small and medium business segment in the JCC is chronically constrained in its growth potential by crowding out by the government or by other corporate. What are some pieces of advice or what are some ways that you can think that SMBs can break through the so-called ceiling?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (38:38)
And so Mustapha asked that the ecosystem is constrained for new entrance?
Rachel Pether: (38:41)
Yeah. So the SMB segment is often, I guess, crowded out by some of the larger corporates. What are some ways that the smaller businesses could break through this?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (38:53)
Well, it's not the case anymore. As we said, startups are there to set up easier and innovate and sometimes to actually compete directly through their own business models with the large corporates, unless a large corporates honestly innovate. So to me now it's becoming more interesting and the government supports now, right? You see, there is all of these initiatives across the GCC for bringing new businesses, supporting SMEs. Dubai work is working out on the market for SMEs, the same thing here in Bahrain through BAM. So there are initiatives out there that's support entrepreneurs to come over and set up their own business. And there is talent too, the local talent now it's much more skilled than before.
Rachel Pether: (39:45)
Yeah. I think that comes back to the points you were making before about education as well. That's definitely a great human capital element in the region. And talking about COVID and some of the trends that you're seeing, which of these trends do you think will be sticky. So, accelerated versus more temporary, so trends and food logistics or home delivery and how are you looking at sort of analyzing that sector?
Stergios Voskopoulos: (40:15)
So food security, having fresh food near your plate, it's very important. So we see this trend already emerging through COVID. Distance healthcare it's also an emerging trend, education at ed tech and anything around tech. So, but in vital sectors, my belief is that we have underestimated what technology can bring to boring sectors from logistics to education, to healthcare, to energy, to industrials in order to optimize these businesses and make them more profitable. So I think COVID accelerated the trend of technology adoption and also human capital re-skilling. So people need to learn new things now.
Rachel Pether: (41:13)
Now we're getting people rushing in saying that you said they were kind of boring industry. So be careful.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (41:21)
I'm sorry. What did they say? I didn't hear.
Rachel Pether: (41:22)
That you referred to the industry as a boring industry.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (41:26)
No, but boring is good. Sometimes it's ... on sequel.
Rachel Pether: (41:34)
And just closing question, because we are almost out of time and I just wanted to thank the audience for asking so many questions. But with the international background that you have and your sort of passion for education as well. Do you mentor other people within the family? And is that something that's important for you in terms of passing on knowledge to the next generation as well.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (42:00)
Yes, we do. And that's one of absolute the most exciting parts of my involvement with a kind of family. So I see the young family members always, we are like friends too. So they're always asking and I'm always not only me, my team and other professionals are always willing to share the know-how and to try to mentor a young family members also to help them identify what they really want to do. Because education is one part, but here you have a conglomerate into so many different verticals also through kind of cards, so many industries. So they can get a much better idea in reality, what excites them, what actually could match more their interest and their skillset. So yes, mentorship, young family members is actually, this is part of the framework work we're doing. Kanoo of how professionals interact with younger family members.
Rachel Pether: (43:02)
Well, that's great, Stergios. And thank you so much for all that you're doing within the investment ecosystem. And so then the mentorship one and thank you for your time. It's been a real pleasure talking to you as well.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (43:15)
It was a pleasure. And if I may say something, I have to say that it's like, I'm talking to you, like we're sitting at the cafe, we have a very nice open discussion, but I'm so glad that there are so many viewers and that's what SALT Talks have achieved over, especially the past eight months, to give this interview to people. So you and Anthony and John and all the other interviewers, you know the interviewees. So the discussion is I hope much more pleasant for all the viewers.
Rachel Pether: (43:47)
That's definitely be more pleasant for me. And I hope that next time it will actually be in person.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (43:51)
Inshallah.
Rachel Pether: (43:55)
Inshallah. But thanks for your kind words Stergios. We really appreciate it and we had about 25 audience questions. So everyone was clearly engaged as well. So thanks so much for giving up your time today.
Stergios Voskopoulos: (44:07)
My pleasure. Thank you so much, Rachel and thanks to all the viewers.