“I never think any trait, or any weakness can be an obstacle if you have the right political alignment, if you have the right financing in place… it's all about execution.”
Zulfiquar Ghadiyali is the Executive Director of Directions Investment Holding Company (DIHC), under the chairmanship of His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Sultan bin Hamdan Al Nahyan. Ghadiyali’s family business spans across Asia and the Middle East in the fields of real estate, hospitality and general trading.
Growing up in India in a family involved in major construction projects provided early exposure to the real estate business. It also developed early an ability to manage politics of a project. After traveling extensively for work, a move to the UAE made clear that business and hospitality companies should first come to UAE and set up shop before expanding into other regions of the world- made effective due to UAE’s de facto position as the gateway to Asia. The desire from the family to build and their capital backing serves as two of the most important ingredients necessary to drive successful development projects. “I never think any trait, or any weakness can be an obstacle if you have the right political alignment, if you have the right financing in place… it's all about execution.”
LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE
SPEAKER
Zulfiquar Ghadiyali
Executive Director
Directions Investment Holding Company (DIHC)
MODERATOR
Anthony Scaramucci
Founder & Managing Partner
SkyBridge
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Rachel Pether: (00:08)
Hi everyone. And welcome back to SALT Talks. My name is Rachel Pether and I'm a senior advisor to SkyBridge Capital, which is a global alternative investments firm, as well as being the MC for SALT, a thought leadership forum, and networking platform that encompasses finance, technology, and politics. SALT Talks is a series of digital interviews with some of the world's foremost investors, creators, and thinkers, and just as we do at our global SALT conference series, we aim to empower really big important ideas, and provide our audience a window into the mind of some subject matter experts. Today, we'll be speaking to his excellency, Zulfiquar Z Ghadiyali. Zulfiquar is the Executive Director of Directions Investment Holding Co. Which is under the chairmanship of H.H Sheikh Mohammed bin Sultan Bin Hamdan Al Nayhan.
Rachel Pether: (01:00)
Zulfiquar's Family business spreads across Asia, and the Middle East in the fields of real estate, hospitality, and trading. He co-founded Los Angeles based entertainment company, Cinemoi, which focuses on artificial intelligence, and virtual reality, and he's also a major shareholder and publicly traded, Encanto Potash Corp. Zulfiquar is involved in various social entrepreneurship projects, he's the chairman of Blue Sky Village, and he also sits on the board of Beto Chang, which focuses on philanthropy using blockchain technology. Lastly, he's a board member of world defense holdings an ING Robotics based out of Montreal, Canada. Zulfiquar, it's a real pleasure having you with us today.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (01:44)
Thank you Rachel, and thank you SALT Talks for having me on SALT Talks today. I hope we keep it salty and spicy today, and not boring. I look forward, yeah.
Rachel Pether: (01:55)
Is that a promise, or a challenge, I'm not sure? But when I was reading your bio, I subject down quite a lot. You've done a lot of things throughout your career, but before we begin, just tell me a bit about your personal background, and how you ended up where you are today.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (02:11)
Sure, I'll be happy to. So I'm predominantly a hospitality graduate in various countries. So I started off with studying in my own city of Burke, which is Mumbai in India. And I studied hospitality at one of the heavily competing and a very, you know how Indian institutes are, there's a lot of competition for, see if you have to fight with perhaps 4 million students who compete with you, but that's a good way to bring up yourself. And after that, I went on to study more hospitality in Switzerland. And the idea behind me studying hospitality was not because I wanted to be a chef, or a cook, or something, but the idea was more or less to develop hotels, and evaluated real estate, when I come back to my family business, because as a predominant thing, as a family, we are a real estate company based in India.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (03:04)
And I wanted to bring my expertise, and not just buried in buildings, and mortars and fixing the mortars, but to add some landmark to the location, and to that particular street or that particular city. So that was the reason why I wanted to study more of hospitality. So I went on to do masters from University of Cornell. And before that, I was at Swiss Hospitality School in Switzerland, and also went to London for University of London, as well as University of Derby, in the Derbyshire of course. And after all of these education, I worked with the Intercontinental Hotel Group, I worked with Starwood, I worked with higher chain of hotels and, in a very short span of time, I climbed the corporate hierarchy, because I was youngest to have that kind of qualification, and at the same time, ready to be kicked to different cities. So my management would be more than happy to let me take a transfer rather than asking Joe who was already 50 years of age at my level of designation, who's got family and can't move much easily.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (04:07)
So in like a span of 40 years in the U.S I was in the Midwest, in Chicago, I was in Tennessee Nashville, I was in New Orleans, in Louisiana, I don't know how many of you all know about that place, but it's a beautiful jazz music place. I was in Los Angeles, I was in Miami, and then finally, I came back to India briefing, and I started with the hospitality, and real estate consulting. I realized there was a lot of brands who wanted to move into India at that time. It was a buzzing economy back then, I'm talking about early 2005 and 2006. That's when all the investments were coming into India, the private equity players were coming in. That's the year when all the Morgan Stanley's of the world are moving into invest money. So I thought it was an exciting space to start a career with consulting in the Asian economies, and the emerging markets.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (04:55)
That went pretty well for me, and the turning point, what brought me into the UAE was one of the assignments for the hotel development, which I'm not supposed to talk about, but I went to meet the promoter, and they just negotiated a deal with one of the brands. And I happened to ask him if I can jump onto this assignment, and perhaps help him save some on the agreements. And he's like, what can you do? I said, I wasn't the other side, the side which is dealing with you today, at some point I used to be on that side, and they agreed to allow me to negotiate on their behalf. And we realized I could seriously save a good 78% for them. And that immediately made me blue-eyed boy of one of our own family members.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (05:37)
And that was my beginning with the whole of family as an advisor, as someone who would be investment manager for them. With that as a career beginning in the UAE, it was early 2011, 2010-2011, that's when I started. And after that went on to find, found a couple of other large companies, which again I moved on from them. The idea was to encourage FDI into UAE, because I realized there was a big gap between people who wanted to come into business in UAE and they're bringing their investment. And I felt as an investment manager, if I have to invest money, I don't have to go into another country and invest, I rather could bring those companies into UAE, invest with them in UAE, which is the home for me, which there I have a better control over the market dynamics, and ones that rapport and once the partnership sets in, in the right way, then perhaps I could go with those companies to different countries, and explore partnerships. So the idea was from then on, from your country, come to UAE and from UAE, we go to the world.
Rachel Pether: (06:42)
That's great. Yeah. The sort of thing about the UAE being a gateway to the rest of the world does come up again and again. So I would like to touch on that a bit later, as well as the work, that you're actually doing under the chairmanship of his Highness. But you mentioned about your family business in India, what sort of things are they investing in? Do you think that the experience, and your personal family business has helped with working with the Sheikh, which I guess in some senses is also a family business?
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (07:12)
Yes, absolutely it does. And so a little bit about our family is that, we migrated from Iran almost 300 years ago into Bombay, which is the place where our family originates from, and the first sheriff during the bumpy presidency during the British rule was also our family. And we always were aggressive , and very much in the forefront in terms of business, and politics. And we started our career almost 150 years ago with business, was more of in the steel, and general trading of commodities, and land development. So what we see a Palm Jumeirah in Mumbai, in Dubai today, was something we developed in Mumbai in 1980s. So we have a fairly good amount of experience of dredging, and creating cities out of water. And we also known as pioneer for social housing, and slum rehabilitation. If you know the city of Mumbai, it has got a lot of slums, and a lot issues of poor hygiene, and poor housing quality.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (08:11)
So our family decided at some point that we're not just going to be building buildings, and adding money to our coffers, but at the same time, we'll do a lot of social housing as well, letting me develop homes for poor people, and upgrade those lifestyles, and upgrade those land landmarks, and create a beautiful city. So we did well, and we rehabilitate more than 40,000 families so far. So we are known for our construction, we are known for our business in the business community we come from. So it's going pretty well. And my idea when I wanted to join the family business was, to build more assets that we can retain and hold, because more or less, whatever we developed was a residential and commercial, which we just sold, because in India it's not a very renter's market, more of a market where people just buy it out you know.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (08:58)
They love to buy real estate, and gold of course. So, but I wanted to come back and build more hotels, build more malls, and value added real estate, where we could just look at longterm yield returns, and then create a readout of it and list store rates, that was my idea of doing things. Which I did for some time, I still continue to do, we are developing one of the tallest residential building in India right now, it's a 91 story building in a landmark location in Mumbai. And that was again, a good experience for me as well, because I was involved in planning from day one, and sales and marketing, and we did pretty well with that project. It's almost complete now, so we are up for another challenge.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (09:36)
So yeah, the knowledge that I gained from family business certainly helped me since childhood I've seen master plans, and how those master plans were executed, how the politics was mainly managed, how the finances were raised, how the social stakeholders were taken care of, how we managed, and challenges with the technology, availability of resources, and also I've seen that whole nine yards, and legalities, and the environmental concerns. So the whole PESTLE analysis, the whole BST level was taught to me since the beginning of my life.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (10:08)
So I never believed in SWOT analysis by the way, I never think any trait, or any weakness can be an obstacle if you have the right political alignment, if you have the right financing in place, and investment, and a capital. If you have stakeholders happy with you, and of course, if you've taken care of the legalities, and the environment, and the sustainability part. I don't think anything can be a weakness, it's all about execution, so, yeah, that's my take on that. So it definitely helps me yes, and today when I manage royal affairs with H.H Sheikh, and the team, and also going to help companies, the business just comes naturally to me, the moment I see the information memorandum, I know what to do with this company, and I know how to execute this business. Yeah. That helps.
Rachel Pether: (10:53)
I really want to pick up on the pieces that you mentioned on the sound social housing, and investing with impact as well, because I know this is an area of focus for you, and something you're very passionate about. But let's talk about the types of work that you're doing under the chairmanship of His Highness, are you looking predominantly at investments, or you're looking at bringing companies to the UAE? What are some of your focus areas there?
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (11:17)
So three things, one is of course investment, but like I said, I like to invest with companies where I have a complete, I won't say I'm a control freak, but I like to have my hands wrapped around it, you know. Like I don't believe anyone should have a right either it's my money, or it's someone else's money, nobody has a right to like play with it, or do anything which is called injustice. So I like to be, to start with, I like to work on a secure return kind of a model, where I have my downside protected for my capital, and anything on top, the distribution waterfall, I leave it more in the favor of the entrepreneur, so that he's more incentivized to work hard for the project. So that's my investment philosophy if you ask me so, but I look at it investing more for bringing in FDI into UAE, and once we have set up the businesses with this company, then I want to go with them in the biggest countries, like I said in the beginning.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (12:14)
So investment yes, is very much a focus, then also there're a lot of companies will reach out to us when they look for a stronger partner in UAE, especially, you know, so, and they all feel, and somehow have a belief that having a strong Royal family office will definitely help them to navigate the whole nine yards of the system. So nothing wrong with it, I mean, we are as other everyone else, and we openly help them, and commit to supporting these companies to get all the business in place, and to attract the market, to attract the right kind of capital. And then from UAE to enter into Africa, to enter into the middle East region, because we see a lot of traction coming in from Egypt, and the rest of the North African countries, you know, they're booming very well.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (12:59)
Just today morning, I was evaluating one of the projects from Tunisia, one of the smart cities that is coming up, and I was a surprise to see that the young population is so aspirational. They have a good education now, getting very good on education, the men, women ratio of, the sex ratio is very good. The economic diversity is very good, the demographics are very educated, and they have a very good future in place. So yeah, so Middle East, North Africa, and East Africa is booming. So that's what creates more opportunity for companies to set up their base in the UAE. And just to have some time back, I was in one of the webinar, and the more chaos people see worldwide, the more they want to come to UAE, especially right now is dealing with Chinese, and Indian companies. So the Chinese have a problem that nobody wants to touch made in China product anymore, and Indians have a problem that they cannot import Chinese goods anymore.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (13:51)
So they are not able to manufacture, because most of their raw materials came from China. Of course, eventually they will evolve the whole local ecosystem, but by then, longterm everybody dies. So it's the short term survival, is a strategy for them, but we are helping these companies to migrate into, and set up something in UAE to our royal support. But that, again is becoming a very important task for us, and tech and, sustainable projects, emerging technology. We are about to announce our joint venture with one of the very larger sovereign fund for the Middle East, and UAE, and GCC strategy, so we'll be announcing that. That will add a lot of, it's a third party investment, but it definitely be routed through our company, and our holding company. So that would really add to us, in a sense that we be now able to actively invest much larger than what we would actually investing as a family office. So that is going to be our focus area as well.
Rachel Pether: (14:47)
And so when you're looking at these investments, you mentioned smart cities, and other emerging technologies, the SME area in the UAE is obviously a very staffed one in terms of capture, I think about 3.5% of bank financing, for example, goes towards SMEs. What are you doing to support those companies in the SME space?
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (15:11)
Yeah. Very interestingly you touched upon the SME, because last few months I've been focusing a lot on the SMEs, and the SME outreach program that we have created for, especially for emerging market companies, from Indonesia, India, Nepal, countries like Vietnam, and even Bangladesh, you know. There're lot of these small small companies, which have a lot of scalability possible. So we are helping these companies, and we are providing them with all of the possible approvals, and licenses that they need. And we are helping them create an ecosystem for themselves in the UAE. And that's the best way to bring back employment in the UAE right now, because a lot of people are losing jobs, and that's not a very happy situation. I mean, on LinkedIn, and social media my inbox is full of job applications, and I feel bad, because I cannot employ all of them.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (16:00)
So it was in a way I wanted to do some things so that I can bring more and more employment. And if you look at the SME, they actually drive all the possible growth, in terms of housing, in terms of everything that, so FMCG, consumer durables, everything succeeds if SMEs are growing at a rapid pace, and the right way. So we have to doing quite a lot, we are helping them with the adequate financing, we are in fact helping them also to go and trade in Africa, if they have contracts from public, or private sector. We are helping them even with trading find trade finance what we call it to our limits, as well as we have couple of funds which only focus on trade finance with us. So we are helping SMEs to that effect. Yeah. Those are some of the things we're-
Rachel Pether: (16:45)
And you mentioned the hospitality industry. I know you have a lot of exposure to this with the family business, and also with His Highness, that's obviously been one industry that's been hit very hard with COVID, and the lack of travelers, and tourists. How has your family business, and the, His Highness' office adapted to this, and what are some of the changes that you've had to make?
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (17:14)
Well, in the His Highness office, the best thing is that it's a patient money, it can wait, and it is not in a rush to repatriate itself, because it's a legacy investment. For our family business, yes, again are not highly leveraged, so it's a very conservative family of mine, which doesn't believe in borrowing, they believe that their money, is their money. And it's recently just, they invited a couple of foreign players institutions to participate in equity, but otherwise they've always been homegrown, and self-driven company. So we're not very much in a soup, but I would say, yeah, situations are tight, especially the real estate sector is totally, I would say in a very, very bad shape in India right now, especially the luxury market, and we predominantly are known for luxury market.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (18:05)
So luxury market has taken a lot of hit, but just seven years ago, we decided to diversify into affordable luxury where , we decided to sell smaller units focused on very small ticket size, under a million, because in Bombay, in a city like Mumbai, each luxury apartment could be a million, or two, or more sometimes. So we decided to be within a million dollar limit, in fact half a million kind of limits, and provide them with a lovely building, with great facilities, gymnasiums and everything that a family would acquire, a family of four perhaps. So we decided to design houses, smaller houses, smaller apartments, so that, but good locations, and with all facilities, so that people are tempted to buy smaller apartments. That kind of worked very well for us. So that way we were able to save ourselves at the Royal office, but there was not much of an impact. In fact, now that I'm driving most of the investment initiatives, my focus is all going to be investment in emerging technologies, and agriculture and agri-related businesses.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (19:08)
So, very limited exposure to heavy Capex, very limited, I don't have any liking for real estate sector anymore. Some real estate, yes, some quality real estate, yes, which is income-producing, and which is, which has great tenants in place, which I know will last forever. And those are the projects that I'm highlighting, and taking interesting in, but otherwise not going into Greenfield projects, not going into futuristic long-term projects, but perhaps if there is a running office building, with a good 6-7% yield, I'm not very greedy, I'm happy with that, that gives you some realistic portfolio active. And of course when the market improves, you go in cash on it. But at the moment, it's going to be serious focus on emerging technologies, AI-based companies, or FinTech related companies. And with the new farm bill in India, we want to now focus a lot on agriculture culture sector, and retail. Yes, that's going to be the focus now.
Rachel Pether: (20:04)
Well, that's a really great segue actually, because I do want to go into, more depth on the impact investment path, but you mentioned some of the focus areas for India, and we've actually had a question coming in from the audience asking for your current views on the Indian market. I know you mentioned that you were doing some things, and the kind of $1 million affordable luxury range, but what's your current view on the Indian market? Is that still a very robust growth story?
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (20:32)
Well, if you initiate a project today, by the time you complete, it's going to be submitted between 24 months to 36 months, that's usually the time that you complete a project in, by then you will be in a very good situation. So if you're launching a real estate project, I would advise, you launch it in affordable luxury segment, don't go for a very high end, and don't go for the social housing, because there's already too many players in there, but affordable luxury is the sector. India is predominantly a self grown country, self grown market. It doesn't depend a lot on imports, it doesn't depend a lot on exports. So it's an economy within itself, so the most important factor is the political stability, and of course COVID has really made a big difference.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (21:20)
I may have my reservations about the current government in India, but this is not a political forum, or a debate, so I will stay away from political discussion. But that is certainly some decisions which has not gone very well down with the industry. And that has led to certain impact, which is, I would say a sort of destructive, we Indians sometime can get self destructive ourselves, we're the smartest race on this world, and we are self destructive sometimes. So I think, but I think in the long-term, the market is very strong, and there's a huge potential. But in the short term, yes, there is a small pain. It just how you plan your financing, and don't go too much on, heavily exposed on debt. And even if it's a debt, make sure your cost of borrowing is under control, because the margins have been shrinking a little bit. So you may not have a big cushion on your earnings after paying such a heavy debt.
Rachel Pether: (22:11)
I know there was a big push a number of years ago to encourage more financial investment into India, and I think that's, that's worked quite well to some degree. Do you think that, that pace of investment is likely to continue? And I appreciate that you don't want to go into too much of the political discussion, but how do you sort of say that growth, and traction of investment playing out when the world sort of returns to normal post COVID?
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (22:42)
I think the recovery in India is going to be a case for a year, China equally, you're going to take six months to a year to recover. I believe the fastest to recover would be the developing countries, because they do not depend on exports a lot. So it's easier for them to recuperate within the country. So India, yes, but in a year. But I think the Western countries, especially in the developed markets, like the U.S, and the UK, and the European world, I think it will be a slow recovery for them, simply because they depended a lot on exports. And the countries who were importing from them are actually the worst effected.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (23:21)
So it's going to be a little slow recovery, but like I said, I don't believe in threats, and weaknesses, and any kind of negativity, I believe in positivity. So there are a lot of opportunities actually that has come out away from Europe, some from Americans, and we are exploring, but again, not going very heavy on real estate, going very much on FMCG, going very heavy on consumer durables, we are going heavy on emerging technologies, which can be scaled very well in our part of the world, because that's what we can control. Like I said, I like to invest, I'm not a control freak, but I like to be sitting next to the driver, and work hand in hand, you know? So yeah, that's the, but I think that the company should be somewhere between 12 months, it's eight to 12 months.
Rachel Pether: (24:12)
No, that's great. And I'm with you on that Zulfiquar, I've been called a control for it before, and I took that as a compliment, so I understand your positioning there. We've had another question coming in from the audience, which I think you've answered in part with what you've just said about Europe. But the question was, I was wondering for such big markets and countries like UAE, and India, are these funds interested in investing in developed markets, IET European markets. And I think you did touch on that in your previous answer, but maybe you could talk about specifically in Europe, some of the sectors that you find most interesting.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (24:50)
So, I I'm looking at some industrial projects in industrial companies, and corporations in fact in Europe, one such is an opportunity that we just gave a final term sheet to, which is a pharmaceutical opportunity from Germany. I think that's a very good opportunity, and the valuations are very sensible. I would not say it's a steep downwards for them, or a great deal for us, but it's a value for money. And I most importantly believe that that company will do very well in India ecosystem, and GCC ecosystem, because more and more people are spending on health, and so precaution has become more important than just a cure. So people are building to pop those multivitamins, and now more and more, the vitamin C has become a part of daily lives. So the health care is going to become the preventive healthcare basically. So that's another area of interest that I'm focusing on right now, preventive healthcare.
Rachel Pether: (25:51)
That's great, thank-
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (25:52)
Europe is playing an important role, because European companies have some of the great industrial projects come in the pharmaceutical industry, from a quality pharmaceutical comes from the area, so we are focusing on that.
Rachel Pether: (26:02)
So let's talk more about the impact investing phase, and firstly, I mean, it's great work that you're doing on this female empowerment, so I think that's really impressive everything you're doing in that space. But on impact investing more broadly, it's obviously very important for families to leave behind some sort of legacy, and not just financial for the next generation. So perhaps you can tell me more about some other initiatives that you're doing in the impact investing space, and why this is so important for you.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (26:36)
Yeah. I mean, I believe like we have to invest our money, we have to invest our capital, but if that investment can create more jobs, and if it can make life easier, and better for as many people as possible. So that's one of the core principles, which I look at a project to invest. So I am not a very big fan of men on mars, or men on sartun, sorry, I mean this is just personally me. I believe even after 200 years of industrialization, we haven't solved the basic necessities of humans on this planet yet. So I think it's time to actually focus on that. So what are the sectors? And everybody's running for that urban buy of a marketplace, which is just 35% in most of the markets, especially in the emerging markets.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (27:20)
Like the other day, some brand approach for partnering with them for India strategy, and they're like, Oh, the market looks very cluttered. I said, no, you're not looking at the 65% of the rural market, you're only looking at the 35% urban market, and urban incomes are shrinking, while you can put more money in the hands of the rural market, which is 65%. And like, how can we do that? I said, let's go and start agriculture, going back to basics sometime helps, you know. It's very basic sector agriculture, but what we are doing. So, and I have created a whole ecosystem around it, it's not just, it's a random thought for me that all let's go now to villages, no, it's not like that. The last five to seven years of my career, I have invested in a fertilizer company, I've invested in the potash, which is one of the very important component of fertilizer, I've invested in biostimulants, I've invested in seeds, and processing units. So I've done a complete backward integration for agriculture sector.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (28:12)
And now, what we're doing is we come up with a very good scheme where we go into the farmers, we're telling them, okay, we'll give you everything that you need for your production and your cultivation, and your harvest, we will buy on a contract with you, and we'll pay you double the amount that the government pays you. So there is no corruption, there is no allegation of any wrongdoing, because we are paying anyways more than the government pays them. Right? So, but what we're doing is we're cutting down the middlemen, and because all the raw materials are owned by us, it's like our production, and our companies. So we have a very negligible cost in terms of cost of cultivation. So there's a cost efficiency, and yet, because we have a technology and direct sourcing, we are able to cut down the complete middle market thereby saving almost 45% of the cost. And that benefit we're passing to the farmer, and the rural areas, and at the same time to the urban market, which is the consumer. And the extra money, we are putting it back into the communities for healthcare, for education, for housing.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (29:08)
So you are actually creating economy with that 65% of the pocket, and not just on that 35% in the urban area, where everybody is fighting, the Gucci of the world, designers of the world, everybody's fighting in that. I don't want to be in that clutter, I want to go where nobody's going, which is a much larger area, which is 65% of the market place. There is a light activities with agriculture, and the margins can be higher depending on how you processing, and international exports, and stuff, so that can really help, now that we can even grow in deserts. And we see half of China being desert, half of Northwest, part of India being desert, most part of Africa have absolutely no water. Even in those situations, we can grow using a modern agricultural technologies. So why not invest in that? So that nobody goes hungry? You know, that's my vision, that's my thought process when it comes to investing. Yeah.
Rachel Pether: (30:01)
And so I think that water question is actually a really important one. You know, we live in a part of the world that has very scarce, fresh water supply. What are you doing on the waterfront, and how are you doing the turning unfarmable land to farmable.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (30:21)
So the're a lot of these new innovations, like just four days ago, I saw one very innovative technology. So, what they do develop is they have developed these paver blocks, which you put on pathways and walkways, and these are something which, so the major problem is we're not storing enough running water. You know, like most of the countries of the world barring some desert regions, which don't get rainfall, but otherwise, most of the regions of the world, they get good amount of rainfall, but still the water goes down the drain, and it goes into the ocean. So there's no one, no ways to conserve that, and in, especially in emerging markets, and developing, and under developed countries, there's no such enough investment available to kind of actually create those kinds of reservoirs, it costs a lot of money.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (31:04)
So, simply if you made, make roads made of these blocks, the road, these blocks have ability to absorb water, and it takes it to the underground water reservoir in a central location, and it gives the water fresh for at least 12 years. So these are some of the innovative ideas that we're implementing, and agriculture, we just looked at one of the Israeli company the other day, they're number one in drip irrigation. And if it takes you one gallon of water, then you just need a hundred ML of water compared to that. It's just the way you irrigate the whole land. So yeah, water is important, but the absorption of water, it takes its own time. So you pour a gallon of water on a plant, it's not going to absorb all the water. It's like, you can't drink a gallon of water at one time, but within a period of one week you can drink a gallon of water, right? So, that's how it is. Yeah.
Rachel Pether: (31:55)
That's fascinating. [crosstalk 00:31:59] You did touch on looking at Israel, and investing in an Israeli company, maybe you can talk a little bit about the Abraham Accord, and if Israel is now a market that you're looking to more intently as a result of that.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (32:14)
Well, like I said, I'm Indian as well, so I've always looked at Israel and Cinemoi, the company that you talked about, it's actually an Israeli founder. And so, I'm not new to working with Israelis, and my Jewish friends, in fact, 70% of my partners are Jewish origin. And we sit down, and when we look at the global conflict we laugh on it, because we feel technically there is no conflict between us. It's like I was using this very apt example like, I mean, Abraham Accord is basically the cord for the Jewish, the Christians, and the Muslims. So, we all believe in the same God at the end of the day, so it's like, we all alike, and we believe that Domino's has the best pizza in the world, it's just we have a problem with the delivery boy, so that's the only conflict we have, and the day we settled down on that conflict I think we are good to go.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (33:06)
But I have a strong connection with a lot of my Jewish friends, and I believe they are just like you and me, and they want happiness, they want education, they want freedom, they want peace, and so as me, I want the same things in life. And some of the initiatives on cybersecurity, on automotive bagels, what I call AVs, and some of their drone technologies that we're working on, that you read about ING Robotics, we are working with some of our Jewish partners in that, it's a company found in Canada, of course. And I believe we have one of the best drone systems in the world. I cannot, of course get into the technicality here, not dependent for that, but definitely it's a very smart technology. We are working on smart cities, not just smart cities, but super smart cities. And there is a whole explanation to that as to how it can become super smart cities, which is absolutely aligned with the sustainable development goals.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (33:59)
And I think that Abraham Cord, Abraham Accord, will actually open more opportunities for everyone in the region, because the most important consideration for every investor was, Oh, it's a hot region, it's a volatile region. Now somebody says it's a volatile region and your eyebrows really, you really think so? It's not, because the major region reason for conflict is solved now. So that has gone politically very strong message, that we are ready to make these no matter what it takes. And that is going to work very well for the whole region as a whole, not just for UAE. So people in the neighborhood were not very happy with the decision, I don't know why, because it's actually going to help them and every one of us. So in fact, everyone should have worked towards it. And I salute the vision of H.H Sheik Mohammed bin Said, and of course, H.H Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid, for kind of taking this bold initiative. And this is going to be a very long-term, and it holds a very bright future for the GCC and Middle East actually, and for the world, I would say rather.
Rachel Pether: (35:00)
Yeah, I completely agree with all of your points, except for the point you made about Domino's pizza being the best in the world. Rest of your points, I agreed with. We have time for one more question, so I'll just give you a slightly easier one to finish on. Perhaps you could talk about how you think your training in hospitality, and that that sort of customer outward focus has helped you in your career, and in your life to date.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (35:26)
Yeah, I learned one thing like it's about, it's the 10%, which is the situation, and 90% is your reaction to that situation. So in the hospitality, I always learned about you attitude. So whenever I saw an angry customer, or a guest, you know, all it took was an appreciation, and a little bit of a care, a little bit of affection, and put yourself in their shoes, and think how are they feeling in that situation? You may feel like, Oh, how can I do this? And what can I do to make this guy happy? So if you leave that attitude and rather think, what is that that he wants, and how can I make him happy? And that will really go along way.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (36:10)
So in my business dealings, I always, so whenever I prepare my presentation, I don't prepare for what I want, I prepare for what the other side wants from me. And if I'm going to give him what he wants, he'll automatically give me what I want, because that's how you win in business. So it's called the you-attitude, and I always carry that you-attitude with me. So that's something I learned a lot, and we were taught, no matter how much the pressure, you always will smile, and no matter how much the other side is stupid, or wrong, you'll always still smile. So, that always helps trust me.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (36:44)
I've come across a lot of people, and not everybody's happy to see you grow and progress, but you take them in your stride, and that's what I do, and this is part of my training. And I mean, I can go on telling you the goodness of the hospitality, and service industry, but service industry just makes you for life, because your business is not done on the office table, but on the dinner table when you order a drink, and that's why we have our mastery, because we are trained in hospitality. So when you ask the next time for dinner, I'm going to suggest to you Alsace Gewurztraminer wine with lowriter oysters. So I'm sure that you're going to be more than happier, to have that kind of a starter with a lovely wine. So, I mean, that's how we are trained to dress to kill, and smile to impress.
Rachel Pether: (37:34)
Well, that's great. That's a very optimistic, positive note to end on. So, Zulfiquar I just like to thank you so much for your time today, it's been a pleasure speaking to you as always.
H.E. Zulfiquar Ghadiyali: (37:43)
My pleasure Rachel, thank you for inviting me. I've always been a big fan of you, and I think it's my fan moment today. So, Rachel thank you for inviting me in this lovely interview. And again, Joe thank you for helping coordinate this thing, and everyone who posts their questions, and people who are listening to us, thank you again for your time, and attention. And wish you all the best with your health, and wherever you are, please be safe this year, just save yourself as Jack Ma said, the biggest profit of this year is you are safe, and you're alive, that's most important.