“You know, the choice between the economy and public health was never a choice… You can't get the economy going until you solve the public health riddle.”
Andrew M. Cuomo is the 56th Governor of New York, having assumed office on January 1, 2011. Governor Cuomo is the Dean of the nation’s Democratic Governors, and currently serves as Chairman of the National Governors Association. Prior to his election as Governor, Cuomo served as the 64th Attorney General of New York. From 1997-2001, Cuomo served as the 11th United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development under President Bill Clinton.
A deeply divided and polarized nation has presented unique challenges in getting control of the COVID-19 pandemic. Large swaths of the population will refuse to abide by guidance or direction simply because of their dislike and distrust of the political party delivering the message. These issues were exacerbated by President Trumps denial of the facts where he intentionally downplayed the seriousness of the virus. “It was just total government incompetence. It was a denial, in that the President now admits he lied about it… He was afraid that if they knew the truth it would hurt the economy.”
The Biden administration must put almost all of their focus into getting COVID under control and administering the vaccine coupled with stimulus aid to people and states. In the meantime, effective public messaging can allow economies to function while maintaining safe protocols to limit COVID spread.
LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE
SPEAKER
Andrew Cuomo
56th Governor of the State of New York
MODERATOR
Anthony Scaramucci
Founder & Managing Partner
SkyBridge
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
John Darsie: (00:07)
Hello, everyone and welcome back to SALT Talks. My name is John Darsie. I'm the managing director of SALT, which is a global thought leadership Forum and networking platform at the intersection of finance, technology and public policy. SALT Talks are a digital interview series that we launched during this work from home period with leading investors, creators and thinkers.
John Darsie: (00:29)
And what we're really trying to do during these SALT Talks is replicate the experience that we provide in our global conference series, the SALT Conference, which we host bi-annually in the United States and across the world. And what we're trying to do with those conferences, is to provide our audience a window into the mind of subject matter experts, as well as provide a platform for what we think are big ideas that are shaping the future.
John Darsie: (00:52)
And today, we're very excited to welcome Governor Andrew Cuomo to SALT Talks. And we're very grateful for Governor Cuomo's time during a very interesting time taking place in the country. Governor Cuomo is the 56th Governor of the State of New York. As governor, he's fought for social, racial and economic justice for all New Yorkers. Under his leadership, New York passed marriage equality, a $15 minimum wage, the strongest paid family leave program in the country, the strongest gun safety laws in the country, equal rights for women, greater protections for immigrants, the largest investment in education in state history. He cut taxes for the middle class, he implemented a 2% property tax cap. He put more New Yorkers to work than ever before and became the first state in the nation to offer free college tuition for middle class families.
John Darsie: (01:41)
Now, growing up in Queens, Governor Cuomo learned the reality of the middle-class, working-class struggle. He graduated from Fordham University in the Bronx in 1979, and received his law degree from Albany Law School in 1982. After law school, Governor Cuomo headed the transition committee for then Governor-elect Mario Cuomo and served as an advisor to the governor while taking a salary of $1 per year.
John Darsie: (02:07)
At the age of 28 he founded the housing enterprise for the less privileged, a not for profit that set a national model for serving the homeless. And after the 1996 election, President Clinton appointed Governor Cuomo to serve as the Housing and Urban Development secretary. And in 2006, Governor Cuomo was elected New York State Attorney General. In November of 2018 Governor Cuomo was reelected as governor with the largest number of votes any governor has received in both the primary and the general election. Governor Cuomo is also the proud father of three girls, Mariah, Cala, and Michaela.
John Darsie: (02:43)
Just a reminder for you, if you have any questions during today's talk, you can enter them in the Q&A box at the bottom of your video screen. We're also going to turn it over to Anthony Scaramucci, who is the founder and managing partner of Skybridge Capital, a global alternative investment firm. Anthony is the chairman of SALT. And with that, I'll turn it over to Anthony for the interview.
Anthony Scaramucci: (03:03)
Hey, John. Thank you, Governor Cuomo. Thank you for joining SALT Talk. Before we get started, I just want to hold up your book, American Crisis: Leadership Lessons from the COVID-19 Pandemic. I read this book over the last weekend governor it's an exceptional read. I encourage people to read the book if they want to learn about COVID-19, the things that we didn't know in the beginning, the things that we've learned that also some of the things that you did here in New York to keep us safe, which my family and families around New York are very grateful to you.
Anthony Scaramucci: (03:34)
And so I just want to hold that book up and recommend it to everybody. Governor Cuomo, thank you for writing it. I want to dig into something that I think you would appreciate, because we're contemporaries in a lot of ways in terms of the way we grew up. You grew up in a middle-class family and Queens. My dad was a crane operator out here in Port Washington. You and I both know Ken Langone built a monument to those immigrants out here who mined sand in middle class Port Washington.
Anthony Scaramucci: (04:03)
And I was looking through my photos. There's a photo of you, me and your mom and dad from a few years ago and my wife Deirdre. And as I was looking at the photo is thinking of that older generation, Governor Cuomo. Tell us a little bit about that life experience. I remember the accordion, I remember the bocce balls. I remember the traditional Sunday meals, I remember getting smacked with a wooden spoon, tomato paste cans getting thrown at me, but not necessarily from my mother. It could have been from my aunt or somebody down the block. And my mother was like, "No problem. Hit him with the tomato paste can." And so I was just wondering if you could regale us a little bit with your upbringing, and how it had a big impact on you in your professional pursuits.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (04:46)
Thank you, first, Anthony. It's good to be with you. I've been an admirer of yours for many, many years. I want to just give you a caution at the beginning of this. I'm not the other Cuomo who you talked to who loves those soft balls, that vague conceptual discussion. I'm a more rigorous substantive better athlete, better looking in general Cuomo.
Anthony Scaramucci: (05:15)
And by the way, Governor I don't have the Cuomo nose, so there's no way I could bring a swab like that on to set. Okay, look at this nose. Okay. Every Italian wants this nose Andrew. Go ahead, keep going, keep going.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (05:28)
How nasty, my own brother, how nasty. Look, we are a product of the socialization, where we grow up. And my upbringing was like yours. Queens, middle class. My father doesn't become governor until I'm in my 20s. So he was just a middle class, working lawyer. The Italian tradition was much like, I think any immigrant tradition now. They were conservative, they had to work hard. It was about family. It was about discipline. It was about faith.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (06:04)
They made sure the children knew the fundamental values. I worked every job there was, I had to pay my way through college, pay my way through law school. I was a tow truck driver, I was a landscaper, I was a security guard. You name it. I did it. Summers, you worked. We didn't get on a plane and go to Europe. There was no summer home. And I think that was very helpful, in retrospect, it was tough going through it. And the discipline was tough. But they were right. They were fundamentally right at the end of the day.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (06:44)
It is about education. It is about respect, it is about law and order. It is about respecting police. They were right. And this country gave them a gift and they maximized the gift. And they loved the country for it. My grandfather, I was named for him, Andrea. I'm working now, you can appreciate this. My father's father was a small grocery store owner. And on the side, he did masonry and he would put ornaments in the front of the house. And he made this little stone castle with stones from Jones Beach, he would go along Jones Beach and pick the nice white stones, and he made this little cement castle about five feet high.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (07:35)
And I have it now, it must be 100 years old and I'm rebuilding it with my daughters. No I'm not half the artists my grandfather was but just to give you a sense of that kind of transition and how we have to stay with it. So I'm very proud of it. Also Queens, Nassau, where you work. It was diverse. It was, you grew up with Jewish people, Irish people, Asian people. That was also very helpful. It broke down all of these stereotypes and differences. You went to school with different people you grew up with, you played with different people. So it took down the fear level of differences, which I think is so resonant in this nation now.
Anthony Scaramucci: (08:23)
Well, listen, we agree on that. And I've had my tussles with the president, this whole notion of low income housing not being in the suburbs. And Governor, I can tell you, those people that I grew up with, we were surrounded by low income housing. Many of those people went on to live the American dream, created great companies, great jobs. And we learn more in an environment like that our differences are really not differences. Once you see each other you see the commonality of each other.
Anthony Scaramucci: (08:51)
I want to go to the book for a second because I really enjoyed the book. It's a quick read, by the way, again, I'm going to encourage everybody to read it. But why did you feel compelled to write it at this moment, you had a lot on your plate, you gave some of the more masterful press conferences, which were really eye-opening to people and I think you've reduced anxiety. And you mentioned in the book, which I'm going to mention, everybody bringing down the fear, opening up the communication makes people more protected from the disease, but also gets them more comfortable so that they can expand back into their normal lifestyles. Tell us why you wrote it and tell us what people should learn from it.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (09:30)
Yeah, I wrote it for two reasons, Anthony, first, because we still don't know what the heck we're doing with COVID. I mean, we're eight months into this. The numbers in many states are worse than ever. This is something that we should have been able to deal with. This is government incompetence, meets denial, meets division, national division.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (10:02)
The government was incompetent. I mean, how can you be the United States of America, you can't find masks and gowns. And you can't make Q-tips which is the nasal swabs for the covid test. It was just total government incompetence. It was a denial, in that the President now admits he lied about it. He just decided to tell the American people everything was fine. Don't worry about it. He was afraid that if they knew the truth it would hurt the economy. It was totally implausible. It was a virus, you don't think they're going to figure out that there's a virus when they see people dying.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (10:43)
But that was his strategy. He thinks he's a PR maven. And that he can sell anything. Yeah, but at one point, the truth catches up to you, and the truth caught up to him. And then it's a function of the division. Because we're so politicized, we're so polarized that we define ourselves by opposition. If you say "Wear a mask." "I'm not going to wear a mask, just because you said wear a mask." If you say, "It's a problem." "I'm going to say it's not a problem, just because you said it."
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (11:22)
I mean, look at where we are with this election, it's 50/50 a more polarized nation you've never seen. Polarized to our own demise. I mean, this is like a family fighting with themselves in the household. And half the family is going to oppose whatever the other half of the family says. I also wrote it because I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. I was going day to day with such a frenzy so little sleep. I wanted to rerun the tape to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Anthony Scaramucci: (12:03)
Makes sense.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (12:03)
So it gave me an opportunity to go day by day.
Anthony Scaramucci: (12:08)
Well, we're at 230,000, unfortunately, confirmed deaths, there's over 9 million confirmed cases. New York, stable, although the infection rate is up in New York a little because it's deeply up in the rest of the country. But again, I want to thank you on behalf of New York for helping us get this thing under control, making us safer. But what do we do now? What do you recommend in the midst of this large surge of infection, governor, how can we get the virus under control?
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (12:39)
Yeah, let me make one quick point before. Just to make the point of the incompetence. cOVID-19 came out of the blue, baloney. We had SARS in 2002.
Anthony Scaramucci: (12:54)
Yeah, you mentioned that in the book.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (12:56)
Dengue, Zika, MERS in 2012, SARS, MERS, and COVID. All coronaviruses, all came from China. All came from the wet markets in China, what they call zootropic viruses, came from an animal transfer to human beings. China lied about all three, the World Health Organization missed all three. We never solved any of them. We had plenty of warnings. We were just in denial and brother denial does not work, in government, in business and life. You normally see the problem before it comes and overtakes you. Right you see the wave building as you're standing on the beach. So we just totally blew it.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (13:50)
It hit New York so hard, because the President was saying China virus, China virus, China virus, the virus had moved to Europe, and was in Europe for three months. And we're taking flights from Europe every day. And Italians and French and Spaniards and Brits were bringing COVID to New York and nobody told us. I mean, it was a if you wrote a movie people would say was implausible that the United States was that incompetent.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (14:22)
Where we are now is yes, the infection rate is going up. New York State, remarkably, had the highest infection rate in the United States of America. We're now the third lowest, only Maine and Vermont have a lower infection rate. And Maine and Vermont, great states, great governors, but they don't have the density we have, they're more rural states. So it goes Maine, Vermont, New York in terms of infection rate.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (14:50)
What we're doing is I test like a madman, because I want to know the data. I'm tired of the politics. I'm tired of the anecdotal. Give me the data. And we test about 120,000 tests a day, more than any statements. We test to such a level that I can tell you what neighborhood has an outbreak. It gets as tight as two miles in Port Washington has an outbreak.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (15:22)
And then we focus on that micro area, we call them micro-clusters. And we lock down that area with restrictions, bars, restaurants, etc. But only in a two mile area. So you're not affecting the economy overall. But you are controlling the virus, we're controlling the virus better than any other state. But when you see a little flame, you're chasing... I feel like I'm looking at a field of dry grass. And embers are flying. And the only strategy is when you see an ember land and start to smoke, run over there and stamp it out. And then look at the other end of the field and stamp it out. So we're doing these very limited close downs in very limited areas. Otherwise, our economy is open.
Anthony Scaramucci: (16:22)
Well talk about that decision making. Because you've made a very good case for the logarithmic, rational decision making to create that intersection between clamping down the virus, stopping it, but not stagnating the economy. And also talk about the schools, if you don't mind. I have two young children in the public school system. And just let us into your thought process and how you interacted with health and public safety officials and making this stuff work for the state.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (16:54)
You know, the choice between the economy and public health was never a choice. You would say, the President would say Republicans would say, let the private market decide. The private market is deciding. What the private market is saying, what consumers are saying is, "I don't feel comfortable going into a theater and sitting next to someone." If I said today, we have limited restriction on restaurants. If I said "100% of the restaurants are open, go ahead. Nobody would go." If I said "Broadway was open, go see a play today. Tickets are free." They would not fill the theater. You can't get the economy going until you solve the public health riddle.
Anthony Scaramucci: (17:48)
No question
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (17:48)
Because people get it. And the federal government made it a binary choice, it was never a binary choice. So ironically, to the extent New Yorkers feel more comfortable about the virus, and they know we have a low infection rate, and they know we are smart and aggressive on it, it has actually facilitated the opening of the economy. And what I do is we have so much data Anthony, I can tell you day to day, what the infection rate is doing where. And then rather than open close, if I have to I make a minor modification. I slow down in a very small area, which is frankly, from the state's point of view, it's such a small area, literally, we have like three neighborhoods now that we're slowing down. But the economy is open. There are some restrictions, but the restrictions are not what's stopping people. It's the consumer choice. People have decided what they're comfortable with. And that's what they're doing. And that's what they're going to continue to do.
Anthony Scaramucci: (19:06)
Makes sense governor and this a great part of your book, and so I want you to address it. You're in the fog of war, in the beginning parts you know hardly anything, you're open to that, then you're learning stuff. So now you're making this adaptation and pivot, which we all have to do as entrepreneurs, you have an entrepreneurial governing style. So therefore, if you had to look back governor and say, "Okay, this is what we got. This is what we got wrong. This is what we need to be thinking about, God forbid for the next pandemic." What would be some of those things as you're making the evaluation analysis, you more or less addressed it in the book, but I'd like you to expound on it a little bit.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (19:46)
What we got wrong. The virus was coming here for three months and we never know. And I was listening to the federal government and that was a mistake. We were told the spread was only if people had symptoms, when they cough, when they sneeze, etc. Three months later, they say that was wrong, asymptomatic spread. That was a terrible mistake. Because then we weren't testing people who didn't show symptoms. And people who didn't show symptoms were showing up at work, showing up in nursing homes. That's how it came into nursing homes.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (20:26)
Staff that didn't know they were sick, and they went into nursing homes. We were told that you could get it from a surface, surface transmission. So I disinfected all the subways and all the buses, never been done before, millions of dollars. Then we're told it's not surface transmission. What should we have learned? We have no health screening at our airports. They stop you if you bring in a bag of fruit, but you can walk in with a virus and there's no screening whatsoever.
Anthony Scaramucci: (21:05)
But they do have that screening at airports around the world. You and I have both seen that in different... Yes. Right.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (21:10)
Yes. Only we don't have it. There is no ready test. We had no testing that we could have at the airport. We couldn't even make the tests. We couldn't make any of the medical equipment, we didn't have any stockpile. We didn't have any staff that we could deploy. We talk about Homeland Security, after 9/11. We put together this whole mechanism. Yeah, except you have no public health, national security.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (21:41)
I'll tell you a great irony. When I'm in the president's cabinet under Clinton, they give the cabinet a briefing, God forbid you become president because there's a war and they send you down to the war room, one of the top terrorist threats, the supposed release of an airborne virus, which would create panic. The terrorist threat was they didn't even have an airborne virus. But it was so scary that if they could publicize the threat, you would create panic and chaos. And that itself would become destructive.
Anthony Scaramucci: (22:21)
Of course.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (22:22)
We weren't even prepared for that.
Anthony Scaramucci: (22:27)
Governor. During the height of the crisis here, obviously, the crisis hasn't gone away. I'm not making light of where we are today. But it seemed like March and April, was sort of the apex for New York at least. And I hope it will be the permanent apex. And you had to work with the federal government, you had to interact with President Trump and you had to build a bipartisan understanding. And so talk a little bit about that, because we have tremendous partisan rancor in our country. And yet you were able to do things for New York with the federal government from the opposition party. How did you do it? How did you go about it? What are some of the recommendations you have for your fellow citizens in terms of dealing with that rancor?
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (23:12)
Yeah, first dealing with the President. You're right. We have great polarization in the nation. And that's one of the main problems, I think that we have, period. It's pervasive. I didn't have a bipartisan problem with the President. I had a Republican Senate for eight years. I got a lot done with the Republican Senate. I don't see it as politics. I see it as dealing with people. You're a Republican. If I had a backdrop, yours says salt, mine would say pepper. So we're not supposed to get along.
Anthony Scaramucci: (23:49)
No, no, sir. Yours actually couldn't say pepper because I own pepper. I thought somebody was going to do that to me. Gov. So I went out and bought thePepperConference.com. Just want to make sure you know that.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (24:00)
Oh, because I was going to hold up my own...
Anthony Scaramucci: (24:06)
Which is good to know, I'm going to sue you for patent infringement. There you go.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (24:09)
But, look, you and I are reasonable people. And we have issues that we differ on. But we have issues we can talk, we can communicate. The President, I had opposed on many of his policies since he became president. I knew him before that, by the way. He was a supporter of mine. He contributed to me, I knew his family, they contributed to me. He becomes president. He moves very far right, which he had to in the presidential. And then it's almost like he became an apostle of it.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (24:47)
I had fought with him as governor, we get to COVID. I called him up. I said, "Look, forget all that. It's a new day. It's a new moment. We have to work together. This is an historic moment in this country. It's going to be your legacy. It's going to be my legacy. Let's do this together. We happen to have the worst problem in the country because of that ambush from Europe. And all those European flights are landing at JFK, etc." The problem was not politics. He is an impossible human being to deal with. And I'm in the business of dealing with human beings.
Anthony Scaramucci: (25:22)
I didn't know that Andrew, I only got a shot out of a cannon. And we've got a whole time limit, 11 days named after my last name, but that's fine. But I didn't know that. But go ahead, keep going.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (25:33)
He really is impossible. Now, it's interesting, because the extreme personalities, and you know this from your business, are normally in some ways easier to deal with. A narcissist is almost the easiest to deal with. If you get yourself out of your head, and you're just trying to communicate with the other person, and you're seeing it through their way.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (25:58)
So in some ways, he was easy, because he is a classic narcissist. And he needed to be applauded, he needed to get credit, he needed to be... You had to genuflect. "Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. If it wasn't for the president." I did all that. But he is really unreasonable, almost to the point of a disorder. And at one point, he was in such denial of the virus, that we just were at loggerheads because I was saying, "We can't deny it, I have people dying. I can't keep praising you when you are in denial." And eventually it just didn't work.
Anthony Scaramucci: (26:50)
Well, and now he has his legacy. And it's an interesting situation that we're living with right now. There may be a Biden administration coming. And I'm sort of thinking that there's going to be, in fact, I would just tell everybody on this SALT Cast that at least the prediction markets have it at 92%. So let's for this sake of this question, you're a policy adviser to Vice President Biden, who's now the president elect, what would be some of the priorities that you would want to have in the first 100 days? What would you advise him?
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (27:26)
Do I get four?
Anthony Scaramucci: (27:28)
Yeah, anything you want?
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (27:29)
COVID, COVID, COVID, economic stimulus, we have to get COVID under control. We don't get COVID under control, we don't get that vaccine right, nothing else matters. You're not going to erase fear just because you say the economy's open, go back to work, it's not going to happen. We have to really deal with COVID. And we have to be smart. And we have to deal with it as a nation. This whole theory of 50 states handle it on their own. It's bizarre, this is a national pandemic.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (28:08)
I've never heard of delegating it to 50 states, how do I deal with the virus, I have my virus under control. I have New Jersey up, Connecticut up, Massachusetts up, they're all coming into my state. It's like trying to control a virus in your home when people are walking in and out. So we have to get COVID right. And we have to get serious about it. And that's going to be a whole reboot of COVID. The vaccine has to be right. They have no [crosstalk 00:28:37]-
Anthony Scaramucci: (28:37)
Can I stop you one second governor? Do you believe what the Vice President said in one of the debates? He said, "I want to stop the virus, but not stop the economy." So do you believe that we could do that without having a work stoppage or a closure like was going on in the United Kingdom? Or do you think that has to come together for a period of time?
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (28:57)
If you're smart, you can do it. That's what we're doing in New York. It's the testing. And it's the data. How do you run your business, you run your business on data.
Anthony Scaramucci: (29:09)
Correct.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (29:10)
I get 120,000 tests a day, I get a map of the state and where the 120,000 cases are. And I look at the clusters and I attack the clusters. But you have to have that data. To have that data, you have to have accepted the concept that COVID is an issue. Why am I doing more testing than any other state? Because many of these other states follow Trump's logic. Don't test because if you don't test you won't see the cases. What does that mean? On that theory don't arrest anyone and you have no crime rate?
Anthony Scaramucci: (29:55)
Well, because governor as we both know, they're using it as a political tool. They're suggesting... He said more than once last week, "Well, on November 4, you won't ever hear of COVID again." And he's suggesting to people "Don't wear the mask. And come to my super-spreader events because it's a hoax." Is more or less is how he said it.
Anthony Scaramucci: (30:13)
Now, he'll claim that he was attacking the media, but go look at his statements he more or less believes that. So I guess my question is how do you and you did some of this in your speech, you gave a very rousing, empathic speech at the DNC over the summer. How do you effectively engage the other half of the country that actually believes President Trump that it is a hoax? Or is that something to be taking seriously? How do you put those two together? Because you and I both know, if we don't do that, you're not going to be able to tamp it down properly.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (30:45)
It's a relationship that has to be restored. And I'll tell you why I think Biden is the right guy. I don't believe Trump created the divisions. I don't. I don't think he's that impactful. I think he sensed the division. And then he played to the division because he's fundamentally a marketing guy.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (31:09)
We know him from New York. He was never a businessman. He was never a builder. He's a marketer. He saw the anti-semitism, he saw the racism, he saw the fear of the immigrants. He saw the controversy around guns. He saw the controversy around abortion. And he divide and conquer, the oldest strategy, divide and conquer. He saw a crack, he put a wedge in that crack, and he hammered that crack, and he exploded the crack. And then he polarized the crack by saying black and white, COVID, no COVID, everything was binary.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (31:55)
People get that at one point there are facts. 237,000 people are dead. That's a fact. People know people who died. That's a fact. I think Biden is going to be the turning point, to stop us from focusing on differences. And for stopping definition by opposition to focusing on the commonality. It's a virus, you had a virus, you know how to treat a virus, when your kid has a virus in your house you know what to do? The kid stays in the bed. You tell your other children don't go into that room. She stays in the bed until she's better. And don't let her get out of the bed too soon.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (32:44)
I think there's a common sense to this, that Biden can communicate to people. It won't happen overnight. But there are things that he can do immediately, mandate that government tests. Because I hate to keep coming back to this, Anthony. But if you don't know, what in your portfolio is the low performing stocks, you don't know how to manage the portfolio. How can you manage a virus if you don't know where it is, which is right where we are in this country now.
Anthony Scaramucci: (33:20)
No listen, it makes sense. I want to shift gears [inaudible 00:33:23]. A few last questions, Governor. I want to shift gears to something I heard you say, and you address it a little bit in the book, but I've heard you say it in your press conferences. There's a difference between a peaceful protest and let's call it violent looting. I think that was actually your exact words. And I want you to tell us, the synthesis of your decision making about federal and local law enforcement, and how to make the majority of the citizens of New York, New York State, New York City feel safe when there's racial tension and there's flare ups like after what happened unfortunately, with the very tragic incident with George Floyd.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (34:05)
Public safety is job one Anthony, public safety is job one. In your business integrity is job one. You can go up you can go down but it's integrity [crosstalk 00:34:17].
Anthony Scaramucci: (34:16)
We agree on that, 100%.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (34:19)
In my job, it's public safety is job one. There is a difference between peaceful protest. This is America. God bless people do it to me every day. If there's not a crowd in front of my house arguing about something, then something's wrong. Peaceful protest is one thing. crime is crime. And crime, go back to the Italian, zero tolerance for crime. And you have people... It's actually interesting, you're can have a peaceful protest. You then have people come and like hijack that protest or use the protest to commit crimes.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (35:03)
That's a crime, arrest them and treat them as the criminals that they are, period. And I think one of the things Trump did very well was make it sound like the Democrats don't respect law and order. Now you do have a nuance here. The George Floyd, Eric Garner, goes back to Rodney king. You do have unfairness towards African Americans in the criminal justice system. You do. And that George Floyd situation was horrendous and the other 30 situations were horrendous.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (35:42)
They have to be addressed. They're offensive to every American. I don't care if you're black, if you're white, we don't kill people on the street with four cops. We don't do that. That has to be addressed. But you can address that without saying "I'm anti-law and order." You have a bad Catholic priest who abused as a child. It's terrible. It's disgusting. It has to be punished. Doesn't mean I turn my back on the Catholic Church. One bad cop, doesn't mean all cops are bad. So in this environment that nuance is hard to communicate.
Anthony Scaramucci: (36:28)
No, I accept that, Governor, the city has been under economic stress as a result of COVID-19. You and I, unfortunately, sir, are old enough now to see the oscillation of that city. We saw it in the 70s. We saw its resurgence, we saw it in the 90s back in resurgence. Tell us a little bit about the city that you and I love. Many people on this call love. What's your prediction for what happens to the city over the next three to five years?
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (36:59)
Well, it will come back, if we bring it back. We have gone through this before, by the way after 9/11. After 9/11, nobody would come back to New York City because it was going to be a terrorist target if you remember, we can never go back, [crosstalk 00:37:19].
Anthony Scaramucci: (37:18)
Battery Park, that whole area you were very discounted real estate. All those people did very well by being contrarians.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (37:27)
Oh, yeah. There's part of that. But it's more than just COVID. First, you have to be honest, in your acknowledgement of the problem. It's COVID and the density of the city's scary. It's been this civil disobedience, it's homeless people on the streets. It's a sense that crime is out of control. It's all of that. And you have to address each one of those things.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (37:59)
I think the main factor is COVID. But we have to purposefully address all of those issues, and show the city and the revitalization and the rebirth. We have an economic problem, not just in the shortfall for the city and the state. This period did something, you realized you can stay home and do Zoom meetings, where before they were just unacceptable. You realized that you can have employees not show up at the office, and not pay for all that commercial space and be just fine.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (38:39)
So there's going to be an economic, lifestyle transformation that's going on here also. But New York City, I'm going to be part of a very aggressive resurgence, revitalization campaign. I just want to get through the announcement of the vaccine, which I think is going to be the light at the end of the tunnel. I think [crosstalk 00:39:05]-
Anthony Scaramucci: (39:04)
When do you think that comes Governor? If you have a guess.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (39:08)
I think three four weeks.
Anthony Scaramucci: (39:10)
Okay.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (39:11)
We're then going to need a vaccine distribution plan, which this administration again, since they don't know how to govern, they don't know how to manage. They have no way to distribute this vaccine right now. Just to give you an idea of what this vaccine requires. We did 120 million COVID tests over the past eight months nationwide. Okay, that's everybody doing everything they could. Everybody was pulling out all the strings. 120 million tests. We have to do 330 million vaccinations. And the current vaccines required to dosages, that's 660 million vaccinations. In eight months, you only get 120 million cover tests, which is just the Q tip. And as my brother pointed out, it's easy, on a nose like mine, because you couldn't miss it. You have a six inch span, anywhere you go you hit it.
Anthony Scaramucci: (40:13)
As long as it doesn't hit your brain you're okay.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (40:15)
That's right. Now you have to tell people roll up your sleeve, I'm going to give you a vaccine. Some people don't trust it. A vaccine is scary. Some people are going to say hold it, "I don't want the first one. Let Anthony take the first one and then I'll call him up in a month and find out how he's doing." Pfizer comes out with the first, Moderna comes out with the second one, this one comes out with the third one. There'll be all sorts of talk about which is better, you should wait. So it's going to be a very massive government undertaking.
Anthony Scaramucci: (40:48)
All right, so I got two last questions for you. I got a fun question and then I'll end it on a more serious question. What is it with the Cuomo family and the cars? Your brother shows up at my house in this like Blue 68 Pontiac Convertible. I know you've got some fancy cars. I'm an Italian, came from Long Island, you know I'm in love with cars. What is it? Is it in the DNA? Is it part of ancestry free.com? Or is it how we grew up? What is the deal there?
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (41:17)
It is the middle-class, working family culture first of all, it was what you could do... You know you were not going to play golf with Dad, you're not flying off to Europe. So you had cars, were accessible. That was what young people did in the working class neighborhood. And it was machismo and who got the girl, the guy with the best car got the girl. Racing was competitive and machismo.
Anthony Scaramucci: (41:57)
All right, so what are you driving now, Andrew? I mean, I saw a picture of you in some really fancy vintage car. What is that car? Make all these people listening in feel a little jealous about the goddamn car, go ahead.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (42:10)
All right, but we have to separate what my brother does versus what I do. He has a bastardized 68 Firebird. It is bastardized.
Anthony Scaramucci: (42:20)
Ladies and gentlemen. He's not here to defend himself. But go Keep going. Keep going, governor.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (42:24)
This is a fact, this is a fact, I'm not a journalist. I speak facts. It is bastardized. It has a different engine than the car came with. It has a different suspension than the car came with. It's a different color. Plus, he committed the cardinal sin, which he had professionals restore it. He didn't do that engine. He didn't do that suspension. He paid someone else to do it, which totally violates the whole...
Anthony Scaramucci: (42:53)
That's an old school, cardinal sin violation. There's no question. My uncle Sal would flip out over something like that.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (42:59)
Yes. If you have to pay someone else to do it you don't deserve it. If you don't know how to do it yourself you don't deserve it. I hate these guys who go buy a resto-mod. Look at me, I'm driving a 66 Corvette that I paid $100,000 but I can't change my own oil. Then buy a Volvo. I, 68 GTO, all stock, all restored by me.
Anthony Scaramucci: (43:28)
How many cylinders, 8 cylinders?
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (43:29)
Navy blue, 8 cylinders, 400 navy blue blacktop. I just finished the 1967 Corvette, numbers matching, same engine, same transmission. Perfect, restored perfectly, me. I have a 75 Corvette which I've had since college, I bought as a wreck. A total in college, restored that. And then I have a 1996 Bronco, which was the last year for the full size Bronco.
Anthony Scaramucci: (43:58)
Sure, I remember that car.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (44:01)
Which I have also. But I do all the work. I do the engines, I do the transmissions, I do the rear ends, everything is me. As opposed to my brother with his bastardized blue. That blue didn't even come in 68. Text him, say, "You know what I'm thinking? I don't think that's a Pontiac color in 68." Because it's not.
Anthony Scaramucci: (44:26)
You've already got... You already took my spot on his television show. I'm not sure if I want to text them that. Okay, I got one more question for you, which everybody's dying to know. You are a rising star in the Democratic Party. In May of 2019 you told the hill that you're seeking a fourth term for governor. Your pops once said, "I have no plans and no plans to make plans." What our Governor Andrew Cuomo's plans.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (44:54)
My plan is to do what I said that the people. We have known each other a long time. And it goes back to where we started. You're nothing but your word. And you're nothing but your handshake. I said to the people of this state during COVID, when there was a lot of speculation I was going to run for president, I was going to run for vice president and I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this. If I let that percolate Anthony, then I would just be another politician. And they wouldn't trust me. You're just another politician looking to better themselves, you have an agenda.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (45:27)
I said, "I have no plan. I'm going to stay here. I'm going to see us through this challenge." And that is going to be two years, three years, you're right, to bring this state back and this city back. And that's what I'm going to do. Period. That was my word, that's the job they gave me. Govern the state, get us through COVID. And then the second chapter is going to be the rebuilding.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (45:58)
I'm friends with Joe Biden. I know all those people. I was in the cabinet. I have no desire to go back. But I do want to be helpful to him. I want to make one point to you, to bring us back to the conversation we had 20 years ago. The choice, talk about binary choices, health or the economy. The Republican, Democrat choice is not a socially moderate or socially progressive version versus economically irresponsible.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (46:36)
I'm a Democrat. I'm so socially progressive, don't discriminate against LGBTQ. That's marriage equality. I felt discrimination as an Italian. Don't discriminate against black people, or Jewish people, or Muslim people. That's socially progressive, I respect a woman's right to choose. My economic record? More responsible than any Republican governor in history.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (47:07)
Today, 10 years of being governor, your tax rate is lower today than it was 10 years ago. Your tax rate, every tax rate in this state, lower today than the day I took office. Lowest level of economic, government expansion in history. I have a self imposed 2% cap, I will not increase government spending more than 2% year to year. I won't allow property taxes to go up more than 2% year to year. More fiscally responsible than any Republican in the history of the state of New York. How can you be both? Because you can. You don't have to choose. You can be socially progressive, don't discriminate, respect women, and be economically responsible and manage, and understand it's about a strong business sector. And I've done both, which is what I told you I would do 20 years ago.
Anthony Scaramucci: (48:19)
And I love it, because 20 years ago, we did have the conversation. Because when people say they're fiscally liberal, you got half the country hating the word liberal. And when they say that they're fiscally conservative, they have half the country hating the word conservative. And so your choice of words are masterful because what you're trying to do, and you've done a great job in the state of doing it is intersecting and fusing people together where they can find common ground together.
Anthony Scaramucci: (48:44)
And so with that, I applaud you, Governor Cuomo, I want to tell you, a personal thanks for me. On behalf of the Skybridge staff and the SALT staff for joining us on SALT. The book is great, An American Crisis: Leadership Lessons from the COVID-19 Pandemic. If you need a nose job, though, sir, just look at this thing. If you need one, just let me know. Because I could make a really good referral for you. But if you don't need one, that's fine, too. You look fine on the cover of the book. I just wanted you to know that.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (49:15)
I mean, look, do I have a rough hewn look? Yes. I think it plays into my persona and my character, being the real deal. I am no pretty boy, Anthony. I leave that to you and Christopher, you want the real deal? See me.
Anthony Scaramucci: (49:36)
I'll take it. I'll take it. You can have that look. Okay, I'll take mine. Okay. God bless you, Governor. I'm sending you a lot of love from the bottom of my heart. And thank you so much for being with us today on the SALT conversation. I'm going to turn it back over to John Darsie. He's going to say goodbye to some people.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (49:50)
Can I say one word?
Anthony Scaramucci: (49:52)
Of course.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (49:53)
I just want to say I've known you for 20 years. I admire what you've accomplished, what you've achieved, and more, I admire how you've done it. I admire your character and your quality. God bless you.
Anthony Scaramucci: (50:10)
Well, I appreciate it. It means a lot to me. And you know that, I keep mixing between Andrew and Governor because of our closeness. I don't mean any disrespect by that. But Governor Cuomo, thank you so much.
Governor Andrew Cuomo: (50:20)
Thank you.
Anthony Scaramucci: (50:21)
Appreciate it.
John Darsie: (50:22)
Governor Cuomo. We're very grateful for his time and for him joining us on SALT Talks today. A guy, no plastic surgery, no hair dye, fixes his own cars. That's the kind of guy we like to have here on SALT Talk.
Anthony Scaramucci: (50:33)
No Botox, no Botox. You can mention that too.
John Darsie: (50:36)
I didn't say it. I didn't say it. The hair dye I wasn't directing that towards anyone specific, but that's our kind of guy here.