“Imagine if Nirvana came out today and said ‘for our earliest fans, we’re going to give away 20% of our royalties in perpetuity if you buy this token for $2K because we don’t want to sign with this label and give up all our rights’… you’re talking about a substantial shift in how economics play out.”
Gary Vaynerchuk is a serial entrepreneur, author, speaker and angel investor. He is the co-founder and CEO of VaynerMedia, a global creative and media agency.
Non-fungible tokens (NFT’s) are digital representations that take up a block of the blockchain that have an underlying smart contract. There will be massive growth in the creation of NFT’s as vehicles for social currency. For example, it could allow a music band to issue NFT tokens that pay royalties to those token-holders instead of signing with a record label. The inevitable flood of NFT’s, though, will force the issuer to foster a community that drives demand. “NFT’s only have so much demand against it, so people are going to be in for some rude awakenings… If you don’t want to take the bag up front from the big brand, you better build an actual community.”
This belief in the future of NFT’s has led to Gary Vee’s own NFT project. 10,225 VeeFriends tokens will be auctioned off and ownership of a token will act as a ticket to VeeCon, a yearly conference that will be hosted over three years.
LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE
SPEAKER
Gary Vaynerchuk
Chairman, CEO
VaynerX, VaynerMedia
MODERATOR
Anthony Scaramucci
Founder & Managing Partner
SkyBridge
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
John Darcie: (00:08)
Hello everyone. And welcome back to salt talks. My name is John Darcie. I'm the managing director of salt, which is a global thought leadership forum and networking platform at the intersection of finance technology and public policy. Salt talks are a digital interview series with leading investors, creators, and thinkers. And our goal on these salt talks is the same as our goal at our salt conferences, which our guests today, uh, data fantastic presentation at a few years ago. And we're excited to resume those conferences, uh, in September in New York this year for the first time. Uh, but, uh, our goal at those conferences and our goal on these salt talks is to provide a window into the mind of subject matter experts, as well as provide a platform for what we think are big ideas that are shaping the future. And we're very excited today to welcome Gary Vaynerchuk to salt talks, Gary V uh, as he's known to many, uh, he is a man who needs no introduction, but I'll give an introduction.
John Darcie: (01:02)
Anyways. Uh, Gary is a serial entrepreneur and he serves as the chairman of Vayner X and the CEO of Vayner media. Uh, Gary is considered one of the leading global minds on what's next in culture relevance and the internet known to many, as I mentioned, as Gary V he's described as one of the most forward thinkers in business. He acutely recognizes trends and patterns early to help others understand how these shifts impact markets and consumer behavior, whether it's emerging artists, e-sports in Ft investing, which is what we're going to talk about here today, or digital communications. Gary understands how to bring brand relevance to the forefront. He's a prolific angel investor with early investments in companies, including Facebook, Twitter, tumbler, Venmo, Snapchat, and most recently Coinbase, uh, hosting today's talk is Anthony Scaramucci, who is the founder and managing partner of SkyBridge capital, which is a global alternative investment firm. Anthony is also the chairman of salts. And with that, I'll turn it over to Anthony for the interview
Anthony Scaramucci: (02:03)
And bestselling author and wine connoisseur wine genius. I might add fellow hunt and fish club owner.
John Darcie: (02:11)
You said bestselling author. I thought you were referring to yourself. And I was going to ask you for having bought so many books and put them in your base. I am
Anthony Scaramucci: (02:17)
A best-selling author. If you don't believe me coming to my base copies that I had to buy that's where Darcie was going. Okay. We're back in our offices. I shoved Darcie in the closet. That's why he has that low age geography going there. Okay. But you're still looking good Dorsey, but you're great at explaining things in a simple way. And I want to go right to this, cause this is big in your life right now, in your own words, what are NFTs?
Gary Vaynerchuk: (02:48)
And if these are non fungible tokens, that's what it stands for. They're digital representations that take up a block on the blockchain that references to it's a of data, but has an underlining smart contract underneath it that you can use for amazing creativity. So a couple of things, let me take a step back because that meant very little to everybody. Let me do it my way. And thank you for saying that does a blue check on Instagram and Twitter matter. Cause it's a digital thing, but does it matter? I believe it does. Um, does a fortnight skin matter or roadblocks or, or a game up or did a sheep matter to some of the people that are watching right now that played Farmville? Do digital assets mean something in a world where humans spend so much time in digital? And so what I think we're talking about actually, yeah, that he is social currency, no different than what car you drive, where you live, what clothes you wear.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (03:50)
Because I think what people are missing is one the right now all the hype is around the art and the collectibles. But that's very similar to what I saw with the internet in 95, when people were just focused on search engines and browsers, and it seemed to spot exactly the same path, which is why this web three O thing feels very real. To me, one, the macro about Ft is here to stay books. When, when salt sells tickets in three years, it will be in the form of an NFT, which will then be its ticket, but then becomes a digital asset for the future, which people may have in their public wallets in seven years. And I meet, you know, Darcie at a business meeting and instead of just Googling him or looking at his Instagram, I'm going to look at his public wallet and be like, oh, you've got to solve for seven years. We've got a connection. So I think that there's a very similar thing here brewing, but it is a digital asset. It is a digital asset that is non, that is authenticated on the blockchain, which creates an incredible Providence and, and uh, authenticity layer that is going to matter in our society.
Speaker 4: (05:01)
So I'm an old fogy.
Anthony Scaramucci: (05:04)
Let me see if I can characterize it. You say yes or no at the end of the day, it is an original. And so you have to think about it as a virtual original. So if I've got a piece of art, that's digitized, but I actually have the code that's assigned to it in an NFT. I own that original piece of art, but I owned it in the ether. Is that fair to say
Gary Vaynerchuk: (05:28)
Yes, but I think the thing that everyone, this is what happens when Banksy, you know, isn't that banks, same, same ship people sells. Yep. When, when Mike sells his part for 69 million and when NBA top shot does a good really in dollars, you know, out of nowhere, everyone is so rightfully so, so focused there. Yep. I think the thing for people to understand is why does this really matter? Because your apartment is going to be, this is a ledger. This is a ledger, no different than the, that the county has for your home. This is going to be the underlining infrastructure for contracts. People are going to get married on the blockchain. Their certificate will be an NFT. This is, this is how people are going to do leases, sell their homes and their all the intellectual property in the world is going to play in this ecosystem.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (06:17)
So if you're a music artist, you can, you can sell 20% of your IP upfront through a token, as a pre-sale mixed tape. So that early fan base can be a part of it. Cause it's all gonna be ledgered in perpetuity against every royalty. Imagine if Nirvana came out today and said, Hey, for our earliest fans, we're going to give away 20% of our royalties in perpetuity. If you buy this token for $2,000, because we don't want to sign with this label, right. And give up all our rights. All of a sudden, we've got a scenario where here I am today, every time teen Spirit's playing on Spotify, because I happened to be in the Pacific Northwest in 1989 and believed in that band, I'm retired. That's exactly. I mean, you're talking about a substantial shift in the way economics play out.
Anthony Scaramucci: (07:10)
I think, I think it's, I think it's a brilliant description. Uh, you're a great simplifier of complex things. What do NFTs mean for the culture? Is it good or bad for the culture? Good or bad for business? It's good innovation. So who is good about it? Of course,
Gary Vaynerchuk: (07:28)
There's, there's unlimited things that are potentially bad. It's the human race, you know, we're star wars out here, the dark side and the jetties are very close to each other, but the good always wins in the end. I mean,
Anthony Scaramucci: (07:38)
You and I are on a good side. Okay. And I do know that when my children say to me, okay, one of my kids calls me Darth Vader.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (07:47)
That's another podcast for another day.
Anthony Scaramucci: (07:49)
It terms of artists, athletes, intellectual property in general. Good. Right?
Gary Vaynerchuk: (07:54)
Good for the artist, bad for the people that used to sit in the middle and take huge economics for being in the middle.
Anthony Scaramucci: (08:00)
Right. So, but, but isn't that true about everything with de-centralize finance contracting is the blockchain and the internet and the
Gary Vaynerchuk: (08:12)
Role, this funny little man out internet, we were like, oh, the middleman, the internet was a preview. Blockchain is an extremity. Now the problem is all these artists athletes. They're like, oh, this is awesome. I'm not giving up any of my bag anymore. These people, they, they walked into a buzzsaw. There's another part of it. You have to create demand. It's all cool and awesome that you can keep all the economics, but if you're unable to generate demand, it doesn't matter if you can, a hundred percent of zero is zero.
Speaker 4: (08:44)
So be it consumer
Anthony Scaramucci: (08:46)
Brand guru that you are, how should consumer brands think about their NFT strategy? It depends.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (08:55)
You are. So let's use, let's use high fashion luxury. I think they, you know, they'll probably be the slowest to this space. Even though LVMH has been very aggressive and done a lot of creative stuff already in general, every single brand has the ability to turn these into tokens that forget about the representing the physical item, which I think will become norm. They're going to be able to create events, access every membership card that you've ever thought of is now going to play on this chain because unlike, uh, all the dynamics off chain, there's royalty components when people trade, you know, when you think about the trillions, think about this for a second. The trillions of dollars that are sold every year in collectability. Silliness is the word I'm using a key chain. Look, look at your backdrop, right? Like everything behind you right now after your original purchase.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (09:51)
When that, if you decided to sell that Superman sign that I saved and you sold it on eBay, DC is not making a royalty on that with the blockchain, they will, there is going to be no reason why anybody on earth is not going to make an NFT, either just stand alone or in compassing to the physical item. Because, because they're creating a tangible asset that they can have economics against as a brand, you need to use it as a token to do a field pass to a football game, right. To, to do a BIP. Didn't let's say Louis Vuitton put out 50 gold tokens lbs and sold them for a million dollars, a million. What they could back end into that. This is front row at every fashion show in the world. This is getting the product 50 new products a year, a month before everybody, they can start layering these dynamics, but then we'll get school is when you buy it. Now you're like, I don't, I'm I'm minimalism. Now I'm done with those kind of things. I'm going to sell it for 1.1 million because only 50 in the world, they're still getting, they're getting another derivative bite at the apple instead of issuing another one. And having somebody cancel, this is going to be a very big deal. That is just one tiny example of it. So
Anthony Scaramucci: (11:10)
May the fifth is of significance to you? Yes. 5, 5, 5, 5, 5
Gary Vaynerchuk: (11:14)
Is my favorite number. Yes. Tell me
Anthony Scaramucci: (11:16)
Why and tell me what you're doing on five, five. I'm launching. So the way it's also my wife's birthday, I just love it. And public service announcements, I've got her a great gift and an even better card, uh, partners, the cake, my assistant, who happens to be John Darcie's wife, perhaps she could have bought that card. I just want to make sure that everybody
Gary Vaynerchuk: (11:37)
Knows it's pairing see like the blockchain. Yes. I'm launching a, an NMT project. There's only been two times in my life that I felt those spidey senses that I felt in early January this year about the NMT thing, one in 95, when I saw the internet for the first time in my life. And instead of opening up 800 liquor and wine shops for my dad, like I was planning on doing, I decided I was going to launch wine library.com. I'd never owned a computer. I wasn't a techie kid, but I knew this thing was going to be how humans interacted. The second time was a combination of seeing Friendster my space. And then YouTube was the final piece. And immediately after I saw YouTube, I started a wine show on YouTube reviewing wine. And I had never thought about being a front facing personality. I was 30 years old running a e-commerce wine business.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (12:29)
I was a businessman. Uh, as soon as I saw the NMT thing, I went to work and I spent the last four months. So I'm putting this project together where I've literally doodled, cause I've been doodling my whole life quietly. Um, you know, and it created a bunch of characters and, uh, and I'm standing up my own intellectual property and created, uh, layers of access underneath. And, uh, I'm pretty excited about it mainly for this reason, mainly for the fact that, um, I am going to learn so much about this whole world, uh, through the execution for me, I knew myself. I use Gary V as an, almost like a investigative anthropologist test kitchen for Gary Vaynerchuk, the actual operator and entrepreneur. So for me, that's, what's the biggest thing, um, about this, this project for me is that by the end of this month, I will have a completely different extra layer of understanding when I'm having a conversation with somebody sitting on a billion dollar IP, or when I want to invest in a platform or, um, some other products.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (13:44)
So launching, you know, this thing called [inaudible] dot com, um, is, you know, culmination of my being 45 years old and affected by transformers and thunder cats and DC comics and wrestling like intellectual property has been an obsession. I, Anthony, I actually launched VaynerMedia 12 years ago with the main intent of building the best marketing arm in the world, and then buying the [inaudible] IP and refurbishing it through my contemporary marketing machine. So this is a little bit the reverse. I didn't see NFT coming 12 years ago. Um, I didn't realize that I was going to be able to create intellectual property. Um, what's unique about my, my project is that every single de-friend 10,255 tokens is actually a ticket to V con yearly conference that I'm going to be putting on over a three-year period. So they're getting a three-year ticket. That means they can come to the first year and then decide, you know, what this conference got so hot. Somebody just offered me $12,000 for the token. I'm going to sell it. They're going to make a profit. If I can create enough demand by on a great project. So building intellectual property, building my ambition for the best tech and business and kind of culture conference and, and really taking a swing at tasting new technology.
Anthony Scaramucci: (15:05)
Well, first of all, I wish you the greatest success and luck with all that. I think you're an amazing entrepreneur. I'm going to switch shift gears for a second and Darcie and I are going to be out there. We're going to be buying at least one or two tokens that are featured. So I want to, I want to be a V the friend,
John Darcie: (15:22)
Thank you. Been following all your doodles on, on Twitter. I wonder where that was headed. And now we
Speaker 4: (15:26)
Know you do, but, but, but
Anthony Scaramucci: (15:28)
Here's the thing I want you to talk to the generation that absolutely loves you. Okay. That is a younger generation that are my children. Uh, you know, Kevin O'Leary Mr. Wonderful. And you okay. Are the two people when people say to me, well, young kids, who do they listen to that are contemporaries of mine. It's you? And O'Leary okay. So one, why is that? Okay, what do they see in Gary V that draws them in and love spending time with you being with you, and then what is your messaging to them about entrepreneurship and how do you get them ignited with the fire and passion that you have gap
Gary Vaynerchuk: (16:11)
I'm obsessed with not talking down to anyone ever until I go into the ground. So I think in general, my intuition, I read a lot of direct messages is there's a level of, you know, I don't think they're entitled or lazy, or I think I know unlimited, entitled, and lazy baby boomers unlimited, entitled, and lazy gen X. And you know, like there's just unlimited. You know, I don't like to like paint those 15 to 30 year olds, the way that a lot of other people want to paint. I have compassion for their circumstances. They've lived literally in the global empire of society during its probably tipping point. Like of course they are taking things for granted that we've got an incredible internet based society where 13 year olds can literally make a hundred thousand dollars selling sports cards on eBay. Like they don't live in the same reality as we did.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (17:08)
So I think one, they appreciate that on the flip side, I hate when they're full of and they talk about like being sad when mommy and daddy are paying for their Uber and their Equinox and their rent and they're complaining. And, and so I, you know, honestly this is perfect. We're, you know, it's my mom's birthday on May 3rd. And I just think that me, the persona, especially that they are attracted to is really just my interpretation of how I was parented, which is incredible optimism. And self-esteem building with 100% accountability and no. And so like mom was able to walk that tight rope in a way that I rarely see, have not overcome, like making me feel like a trillion bucks and right. However, everything I did wrong, it was my fault. Like when my baseball team lost and I struck out in a big spot, countable self-esteem accountable, that's right.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (18:08)
Practice. What I call practical optimism, which is optimism, I think is imperative for success and all the cynics. And like, if you think it's over, it is over. Literally if you think you're and like the, like it's over on the flip side, I think unfortunately for a lot of these under thirties, they lived through the great era of parents creating eighth place trophies. And like they lost, we lost the balance of the conversation with them. Like that looked like this, no, you can't be like my, my little guys, like I'm going to be an NBA player. I'm like, brother, listen to me right now. Daddy you up. He did not give you the genetic prowess to have a prayer in this. You want to be an epic B3 point guard and maybe hit a shot and sneak into the NCAA tournament. And like, like maybe if you play every day and lose your mom, like, you know, I think the generation of parents got a little bit there.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (19:04)
And, and, and I think that I've, I've hit a chord with them on the balance of the two. And what I would say to them is when you act, when you fall in love with accountability and patience, all the anxiety that you're feeling right now changes dramatically. When you think it's your fault or what can I do about it? And you realize that you're 26 years old and you have 80 years to live and you don't. And all the rules of like having shipping it out was based on people dying at 40. You have plenty of time. I'm blown away by the lack of patience. And when you live for outside affirmation by putting entrepreneur on your Instagram, because you think that's cool, you're always gonna use when you're looking for cheering, because if you're looking for cheering and you become addicted to the cheering, and even when he gets success, I think what really works for me is I get a lot of cheering when you don't fall in love with it and you can't hear it, then you can deal with the booing because when you get there, you get booing too. And I think these kids are too susceptible to the booing because they're addicted with the cheering.
Anthony Scaramucci: (20:10)
And what about social media? Yeah, you're a Maverick on social media. You're brilliant at it. Um, I'm sure that you deal with your share of haters on social media. You know, every adolescent does. Uh, certainly my children unfortunately, uh, have to deal with it. Anybody that puts themselves out there and performance art as an example, or, you know, in our industry politics, anything, uh, what do you tell the kids there in terms of dealing with the negativity on social media? Um,
Gary Vaynerchuk: (20:41)
If you live your life based on a stranger's opinion of you, let's, let's really actually break this down. A stranger has decided that it was a good use of their time to go to your page, your world and try to tear you down. Really. I tell all my friends, five years old to 500 years old, the same thing, don't be sad for. You have compassion and empathy for them. Like the thought of me spending one minute on somebody else's life to tear them down. It's only a reflection of your own inner unhappiness. And so for me, I think empathy and accountability, you know, I get some stuff and I'm like, oh, okay, I see that adjectives not hitting. Let me take a step back and maybe change that context a little bit. So you can't be like delusional, right? And you can't be like it's, but, but if somebody is being really nasty and there's a lot of that, cause it's easy to be nasty when you can hide, um, they're in a bad spot, they're hurt that person's hurting and, and you should be grateful that you're not spending your time going on people's accounts and on them.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (21:50)
I'm literally grateful when I see, Hey, I'm grateful that I'm not in that place. That I'm grateful that my life doesn't consist of going to other people and trying to tear them down. I'm on the, I think
Anthony Scaramucci: (21:59)
It's well said, but it's, it's something that we have to help these kids with because, uh, you know, they get the food
Gary Vaynerchuk: (22:04)
The way to hit the way to help them. And this is where parents are losing is we have to build proper. Self-esteem not delusional just saying you're the best when the kid knows you're not only speeds up the problem. [inaudible]
Anthony Scaramucci: (22:18)
Realistic. Self-esteem but also resilient. You know, I tell my kids, if you're having a bad day, you think of me getting fired from the white house. Okay. That's a pretty good daycare. Okay. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, the issue
Gary Vaynerchuk: (22:30)
Is that I'll have this. I have this with my too, like when you're their dad, like I can impact everybody way more than I can impact my team. You know, look at me, look at me. That's my kids with me. Right. A hundred percent.
Anthony Scaramucci: (22:43)
They want to see you, Gary. I bring them to your office for the medication. You don't have any brother, let me turn it over to the great millennial, the new genius star at SkyBridge. Okay. My co-host John Dorsey. Do you have
John Darcie: (22:57)
Hope? I was talking about self-esteem you're actually saying nice things about me, Anthony. This is, this is a good change of pace saying nice
Anthony Scaramucci: (23:03)
Things about you is I got you stuffed in the SkyBridge closet. Now that we're back, this is true. Thankfully good about myself,
John Darcie: (23:09)
The hand trucks and the paper towels that I'm next to. Now that we're back in the office and Anthony has reclaimed his, his beautiful corner office there, but you know, uh, I'll uh, I grew up with a humble beginning. Saw I'll maintain my humility here, but I want to go back to NFTs for a second, Gary, and you, you, you have a complete, you know, business empire, including a sports agency. We were talking before we went live about an athlete that you guys were recording. Uh, your agency, you ultimately finished second in that courtship, but I'm curious about, you know, I think athletes are getting wise to what's going on in the NFT space. So when they think about endorsements, they're not just thinking about, okay, Gatorade's to pay me to endorse their drink or something of a traditional nature. He's also someone like Patrick, my homes sold millions of dollars worth of NFTs. And I think increasingly athletes are paying attention to that space as you're pitching an athlete, or it could be an entertainer and you're talking about NFT strategy. It almost seems like something that an athlete has to pay attention to. Now it has to have an NFT strategy.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (24:08)
The problem is my homes and Gronk hit it. Perfect. They hit that Mo that they hit, right. Look what Cuban sold his company for. And had he waited a year and a half, it would have been a totally different outcome. My homes and Gronk hit that fever pitch, you know, money grab luck of the moment and not luck. I hate to use that term. They strategically moved quickly executed, but you have, I mean, Dame Lillard is a much bigger name in culture than wronger than Gronk. But if you look at what's going on right now, athletes, there's an unlimited amount of athletes that have put out their stuff. I didn't see the Trevor Lawrence, you know, launch, but like the, the, the roses, you know, the blooms are off the roads, right? The roses is off the bloom, like it's over the supply and demand is over.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (24:56)
And so athletes have to look at it, but athletes have a substantial issue. And so to artists, for that matter, people get very confused. Like, yes, they should all have a strategy and they should all do it. Mazeltov. Now, go sell it. If you're, you know, if you're a, uh, very famous wide receiver in football, you're not even in the game of conversation. Have you been looked at athletes followings versus one tick talker that dances, they're just not as famous as they think they are the Lea contracts, the logos, they wear carry a lot of weight. So the answer is yes, they should definitely do that. But my, my big push to all of them is have you actually cared about your audience? Have you built a community or do you think just because I'm a corner back in the league by NFT should sell, because they're, let me give you.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (25:49)
And this is something that both of, you know, very well, it was a very simple game called supply and demand. The amount of supply of NFTs that are going to be in the world in 2022 is going to be unlimited every person, every intellectual property, every in hairy idea, everything. And that only has so much demand against it. And I think people are going to get into some rude awakenings of how much of an audience they actually have, which will then John create a whole new game, which is if you want to be a big boy or a big girl, and you want to not take the bag from the big brand, that's paying you upfront, you better build an actual community. Cause you're going to get humbled real quick. Right.
John Darcie: (26:31)
Do you think, you know, there's, there's froth in the NFT market today. You mentioned about the timing of the HMA Holmes and the bronc drops we're right around the time when things were just going crazy. I mean, NBA, top shots, you alluded to it. You know, those things just very ordinary highlights that were commons were going for significant amounts of money. That market has cooled off. I've been on NBA top shots. And the way I think about it now is just investing in things that you're truly passionate about. Do you think that, that there's going to be less of a shift, uh, or more of a shift away from speculation in the world of NFTs and more passion investing, passion buying, or how do you think that space is going to evolve?
Gary Vaynerchuk: (27:06)
Oh, I think 98% of the projects that come out in 2021 will not be good investments. Like, so I would consider that froth. I mean, I'm not a free guy, but you know, that sounds like crap. And by the way, that might be, I mean, yeah, I think, I think we're in for a rude awakening now. It feels John you're too young for this, but us, the old dogs like me MOOC. We know this when the internet bubble on the market collapsed, right collapsed in April, March, April, 2000, everybody came out and said, see internet fad, blah, blah, blah. And what was really happening was it was the most significant consumer trend of our time. It was just that people rush to making a quick bag. And that's what we're seeing in NFTs. You know? So 90% froth on the flip side, I'll give you one, I own 52 of them.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (27:57)
There's 10,000 of them. I think crypto punks is going to end up being one of the great investments of the alternative modern market. They were the first NMT project on the Ethereum chain, right? ERC 20 tokens that inspired the ERC 7 21 protocol. There's an O genus to them. They're already $65,000. Ethereum's current price as a floor price, right? So they're not inexpensive by any matter, but only 1% of the world, if that is really up to date to how big and how this is going to all play out, you can see how that's going to compound. So I think it's a really interesting time if we're talking MFT, investing in individual tokens from just a collectible standpoint, I think what we spent the majority of this upfront on, and definitely what my project's built on is the token can represent real life stuff in its contract.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (28:47)
And I think that is going to absolutely explode once people calibrate, oh, this isn't a famous person holding up a photo and selling off back an FTE. This is about real life tangible value. Oh, by the way, some of the most thoughtful things will like the next Pokemon will be created originally as an NFT. And then go on to be something very meaningful though. You know, the way every Pokemon was a card game, John and a video game, that's not how IP was built in 1957. It was built through cartoons. It was built through right toys. So like things, things, things evolve. And I think that's a little bit of a recap of where I see this space right now. Yep.
John Darcie: (29:28)
You, you alluded to cryptocurrencies a little bit. You talked about the Ethereum blockchain. Ethereum has been on fire in the light, even in the last couple of weeks, it's up over 50%. Bitcoin is obviously up several hundred percent over the last year or so. Um, and we're investors in Bitcoin through SkyBridge. And I know Anthony and I personally have some Bitcoin holdings. You've talked about how you're more enthusiastic about the NFT side of things. And you are necessarily about the cryptocurrency side of things. Where do you see the cryptocurrency world moving? And you've also touched on the environmental impact and concerns you have around that. So how do you look at cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin, Ethereum and others, as well as the environmental context of that?
Gary Vaynerchuk: (30:07)
My, my enthusiasm comes from my knowledge base. So I don't really have a strong point of view on a cryptocurrency being a better investment asset than an NFT. I understand MFT because of nostalgia, collectability so much more than trading just on currency. And I also know that the utility aspect of being able to use the, the currency in real world is going to be a huge factor. And or, and so I, I like to stay in my lane. So this is not, my statements have not been a, oh, I think NFTs will be a better investment. They may not be even close. I do. I do think NFTs as a whole is the whole thing. Whereas currencies are fragmented just like individual, uh, NFTs are fragmented. So I think as a whole, it's just going to be civilization, right? You're going to have currencies and you're going to have assets and that's how our world lives.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (31:02)
So I think they can play out evenly that way. So to me, the NFT statement is more about, oh, I really understand how people interact with, with, you know, social currency, like human psychology of why they need it, and definitely on the collectible and the rate of value, as far as the environmental, when you, you see a ready to advancements in four minutes in the scheme of things on L to, you know, technology and, and, and proof of stake, and like, it's unbelievable to me how quickly technology moves, right? As people rightfully start bringing up concerns around the environmental aspects at the rim itself is evolving to its entire, you know, adjustment to the need of that much energy. You have unlimited incredibly interesting chains popping up that are, you know, it built in a manner where they're dramatically more eco-friendly. And I actually think some of the biggest companies in the world are going to be affected by this because when the blockchain ecosystem kind of quote unquote cleans up its energy game, cause it is, cause it's getting pointed with that.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (32:12)
You know, Amazon services is an interesting impact, uh, Netflix, like, you know, I think it'll be interesting to see where this actually takes us to other places. It's really easy for a lot of people to say, oh, look at that thing over there. Cause then they're not playing in it. If we're going to, you know, all of a sudden that same person, when you tell them, you know, you're seven hours that you're watching Netflix, you know, a weekend is something to talk about. So it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out from what I can tell and is not my biggest depth of expertise. I've been very impressed with the speed of new chains popping up that are playing on that space. And then at the room itself, getting to L two level two kind of dynamics that are going to be addressing a plus it's core, oh, genus around proof of stake, proof of work, addressing those aspects,
John Darcie: (33:01)
Switch gears a little bit. And we try to ask this question to everybody we've had on, we started this salt talk series early in the pandemic when we realized we weren't going to be able to do our conferences, but we still wanted to have these fun conversations with creators investors, entrepreneurs about what you learned during the pandemic. You know, I think for a lot of people at crystallize in their mind, the move to the digital economy and the digital world that, that crystallize in their mind NFTs or, or work from home and all the implications that has on our society. Uh, what did you learn? What are some of your biggest takeaways, uh, about business, about life, uh, that you've gleaned from this time during the pandemic,
Gary Vaynerchuk: (33:40)
It was less about learning and more about affirming my greatest belief, which is that during times of adversity, people get exposed. And so, and not in a negative way, exposed in all different ways. I think that you saw the acceleration of everybody being their true self. So if you were negative and pessimistic, you know, you became more, um, if you were accountable and were ready, you know, some people saw this, you know, as, from a business standpoint, from a family standpoint, take away the incredible devastating aspects of the serendipity of who got sick and didn't die. Those, those are, that's not a whole different level. You know, that that's a variable that is, is devastating. And should we put in a category on itself, but in the day to day, what you saw was there are certain people that are wartime generals, and there's certain people that are peacetime generals, and I've always believed that.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (34:39)
And you know, I've already had two little moments in my career. Nine 11 was really difficult for me. You know, our business just started, our entire business was wall street in the scheme of things on the wine business front. And there was a lot going on there. And then obviously the 2008 recession, you know, adjust or just starting up VaynerMedia and the wine business. And it was a lot to go through. And this was the third chapter of like not fraught, the exciting, easy everybody's winning. See players look like superstars. And I think this one probably had the biggest toll because it was a mental game, right? People are encapsulated, there was no escapism for a lot of people outside of alcohol and drugs. You know, it was like really, you know, some of that kind of real stuff, John. So I think, you know, for me it was less about learning and it was probably the final nail in the coffin for something that I've always believed, which is things accelerate during times like this. And I watched from afar, forget about me. I observed so many during this time and it became very obvious me on that truth.
John Darcie: (35:39)
Do you think the world is going to go, go back to the way it was pre pandemic? You know, you talked about New York city. You're proud new Yorker
Speaker 4: (35:47)
In a sense. Yeah. It can't
Gary Vaynerchuk: (35:49)
Because it wouldn't be in the same place. If there was no pandemic two years later, that's just not how it works, but something of this size, oh, I think it's a major change. I think people are actually underestimating it. You know why people are very basic in the way they think about this. Is it going to go back? They're like, oh, are we going to travel? Are we going to go to the office? That's like nothing. That's like a tiny, tiny part of this. We have formed an enormous new consumer behaviors. I mean, doing a zoom or hangout, like this feels incredibly normal now for everybody, which means it will happen. Like every one of us is doing one less trip for one meeting and we're going to do it like this because we're going to every one of us has picked up on a new app, a new behavior, a new purchase, a new interest, a new relationship. I mean like, you know, everything, everything has changed because this is a major global event.
Anthony Scaramucci: (36:45)
Now look like will Smith though. Is that something I should be worried about?
Gary Vaynerchuk: (36:49)
You look great. Actually, I'm actually extremely jealous of how you look.
Anthony Scaramucci: (36:52)
No I'm saying that will will Smith and I both the caring that dad bought
Gary Vaynerchuk: (36:56)
Now, listen, I think, I think you look great. I think he looks great too. Um, I really practical.
John Darcie: (37:02)
Self-esteem Gary. Not, not false.
Anthony Scaramucci: (37:05)
You giving me false hope. Gavin. I love you.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (37:07)
Listen, I can't see the rest of your body here. I see the face and the hair. I mean. I wish I had that. That's an Italian chia pet. That hair has been your strength. I didn't, I didn't grow up in the Ukraine that Eastern European it's going to go away real fast. Anthony, come on. I think, uh, I think that, um, I think everything's changed. And what I mean by that is many things will go back, but John people will be doing things that they don't even realize that they've changed on because it's such a change to our behavior.
John Darcie: (37:41)
I want to finish with a final word on V friends. This episode, we're, we're taping it on May 3rd, full transparency. It's airing on May 5th as of 8:00 AM Eastern time this morning. If you're watching this episode V friends we'll be live, how do people engage with that project? How do they buy V friends? What are the mechanics act like? You're talking to a five-year-old or a 65 year old.
Anthony Scaramucci: (38:01)
What if the opening price for V Fran, you think of me friend coin.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (38:05)
So the lowest tier cause there's a lot of different tiers is a three Ethereum, which now is like 9,000 bucks, but is on a Dutch auction. Anthony, I was concerned that I had enough of a big base of people with wealth, that I was worried everyone was going to get shut out. So I went Dutch auction. I kept all the pricing and it actually descends as the time goes down. Um, so it goes from three to 0.5, Ethereum and it's descending curve. They go to be friends.com, John, they connect their wallet. So starting right away, I know 99% are like, what? So this is where you need a wallet, Mehta mask, uh, any wallet that's compatible with, with a wallet connect that this, you know, a lot of people have a Coinbase, but they don't, you know, but they don't have an active wallet to buy NFTs.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (38:54)
And so you'll need one of those. Um, and then once you connect it, you just literally do it just like a credit card. You click the button. Now what scares a lot of people is like, when you pay a little gas fee in and it takes a little bit, people are used to immediate now with credit cards and all that. So people buying their first set of tea are always a little scared. Cause like, did I just w you know, you see it all the time. Even like, technically sound people like, wait a minute. I don't see the money in my account, but I don't see the token. And so there's a little bit of that that goes on with it. But, but you know, what's fun for me is I launched wine library.com in 1995, excuse me, 1986, and actually launched the 97 and built a 96.
Gary Vaynerchuk: (39:29)
People were scared, crapless John, to put a credit card into the computer. They thought it would get stolen and used. And so we're living it all over again with these crypto wallets, non-custodial wallets, us being in control of all those dollars. There's all these new things like 12, 12 word phrases from meta mask. Obviously, top shop decided to go Fiat and build a layer there. And there's a lot of, you'll see a lot of projects that you'll be able to use a credit card. For me, it was important to be very crypto native to this project. I wanted to be an authentic Ethereum project, and I wanted to educate people how to really use ether for execution.
John Darcie: (40:07)
Gary Vaynerchuk is a pleasure to have you on salt talks. Anthony have a final word for dairy before we let him go.
Anthony Scaramucci: (40:12)
I'm one of his huge, his fans, okay? I'm not a millennial. I'm not a kid that just graduated from college, but I'm still a Gary V follower. And I am a huge fan. And I got to tell you, Gary, you're an inspiration of a lot of people. So keep doing what you're doing. And I will be a proud owner of a Gary V V friends. I can't wait to see what you get. Uh, Darcie's going to explain it to me cause he's more tech savvy.
John Darcie: (40:41)
We're going to go shopping on my
Anthony Scaramucci: (40:43)
Credit card numbers. I know that's going to be really bad for me, but the good news is he dresses like. So you can only spend so much just don't give it to your wife Darcie, and I'll be fine, but I will be owning a V card. Uh, today's broadcast May 5th. Before the end of the day, I will be owning a V frame V friend token. I can't wait. And I'll be a proud owner
Gary Vaynerchuk: (41:05)
Of that. Thank you brother. Thank you so much. And I'm going to work really what I did really smart, I think. And we'll see if history proves it out is I created all these off the chain dynamics to create the economy. When that first conference, you know, John, I have the advantage of seeing where these all lay out at knowing what people paid for it and then producing the event in reverse. Right? So I just have to understand what they went in for make sure that I crushed that first conference. And then that gives Anthony the ability after it happens. If he wants to make a little profit, he's been good at this throughout his career. He can transact. He's a trader by heart. So I got to put them in the right position so that I'm going to be a buy in. I'm going to be a hot Hoddle. I love it. All right, man. Thank you. I got to run
John Darcie: (41:51)
And thank you everybody for tuning into today's salt. Talk with the great Gary Vaynerchuk. Just a reminder. If you missed any part of this talk or any of our previous salt talks, you can access them on our website. It's salt.org backslash talks or on our YouTube channel, which is called salt tube. A we're on social media. We're most active on Twitter at salt conference, but we're also on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook. And please spread the word about these salt talks. We always like to start every conversation with the primer so that anyone, no matter how far along they are on their crypto journey or their NFTE journey can learn a little bit about what NFTs are or whatever subject matter we're talking about. They can start from zero and we hopefully did that today. So please spread the word about these salt talks, including this talk with Gary. Uh, but on behalf of Anthony and the entire salt team, this is John Darcie signing off from salt talks for today. We hope to see you back here again soon.